Republican Party Members

Kay Henderson

The Iowa caucuses are just a little more than four months away. We'll talk about the preparations and the candidates with Republican Party of Iowa Chairman Jeff Kaufmann and Republican National Committeeman Steve Scheffler. On this edition of Iowa Press.

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Here is Kay Henderson.

Kay Henderson

Our guests today are key decision makers when it comes to Iowa Republican Party business. Jeff Kaufmann is the chairman of the Republican Party of Iowa. Steve Scheffler is the Republican national committeeman from Iowa. He is also the president of the Iowa Faith and Freedom Coalition. Gentlemen, welcome back to Iowa Press.

Jeff Kaufmann

Great to be here, as always.

Steve Scheffler

Thanks.

Kay Henderson

Also joining our conversation are Stephen Gruber Miller of The Des Moines Register and Erin Murphy of the Gazette in Cedar Rapids.

Erin Murphy

Chairman Kaufmann, the Republican Party of Iowa has set January 15th as the date for the 2024 presidential precinct caucuses. How etched in stone is January 15th?

Jeff Kaufmann

From our perspective, it's etched in stone. I have reported this to the RNC. We are moving ahead as if that is going to be the date. We're hoping that the other carve outs, specifically New Hampshire, will respect that and respect that. The Iowa Republicans have held their end of the bargain and all of our preparations have January 15th on it.

Erin Murphy

Do you have to prepare for the other possibilities, as you mentioned, the carve outs states and answer specifically.

Jeff Kaufmann

You know, until October 1st, Erin, that that's when everything is due for the Republican Party. Anything can happen. You can never say never. So certainly there are thoughts in my mind just in case. But right now, January 15th looks very likely.

Erin Murphy

Steve Scheffler, you're in the RNC meetings as well. What's your read of what's happening in some of those other carve out states and how fluid this situation is or is not?

Steve Scheffler

Oh, I agree with Jeff. I think it's pretty well set in stone. And I think that in the end, New Hampshire will do the right thing and go after us. So I feel pretty confident. I think that's what the RNC members expect and want to.

Erin Murphy

Jeff. New Hampshire Governor Sununu was in Iowa not long ago at the Republican Party of Iowa event. Did he say anything enlightening to you on that day?

Jeff Kaufmann

We actually had a nice visit on the first floor down there, just the two of us. And, you know, I told him, I said, I've got some inherent problems with some of the messages I'm hearing out of New Hampshire that somehow if Iowa Democrats here turn something into a primary that somehow were held responsible for that. I said the Iowa Democrats, if they turn that into a primary, we should not Iowa Republicans should not be held responsible for that.

Jeff Kaufmann

And we now there is a new law that defines what a caucus says. It was very, very clear to me that he agreed with me. It was also clear to me that he was going to be having some conversations, especially with the new secretary of state, who may be a little over rambunctious, in my opinion.

Erin Murphy

And the challenge there being right, that New Hampshire has said that they want to go on the same day. So if the New Hampshire Democrats feel like they have to move in front of Iowa, they could potentially bring the Republicans with them. And that's the concern, right?

Jeff Kaufmann

That's correct, Erin. And we've talked about this many times on this show. We cannot have a primary in Iowa. It's a half century agreement. And that's why the Republicans wouldn't even entertain the idea.

Stephen Gruber-Miller

So you brought up the new law, which was the passage was led by your son, the state legislator who also works for the Trump campaign this year. One of the aspects of that law is that the political parties have the ability to set a date in advance to require people to be registered as Republicans to participate. Traditionally, you've been able to go and register on the day of the caucus.

Stephen Gruber-Miller

Is that date going to change for Republicans?

Jeff Kaufmann

We don't know. I can tell you that it is very, very clear in our Constitution that same day registration is something that we shall allow. That's been the case since 1992. So this is a situation where it's a constitutional issue, a very clear constitutional issue for the Republican Party of Iowa. What the legislature did for us is essentially, if we have wiggle room, if we have decision making that can occur, then the decision making comes from the Republican Party of Iowa, not from the state, as opposed to the definition of a caucus, which is now in state code.

Jeff Kaufmann

So, you know, we're having conversations, but that's a that's a big hurdle. Look, Republicans are constitutional conservatives. We cannot blow off nor can we ignore, nor can we really wink and nod when something is in our Constitution. We're having a lot of conversations about a lot of ways that we can prevent and essentially what we're talking about here is, is some some disaffected Republicans and Democrats from flooding our caucuses and and giving us results that aren’t indicative of a Republican caucus.

Stephen Gruber-Miller

Steve Scheffler, what are some of those conversations like as you decide whether or not to set a deadline in advance for people to register? You know, obviously, people who are not affiliated with the Republican Party currently, they're no party voters. They could be brought into the process by a candidate. But an earlier deadline can make it harder to participate.

Stephen Gruber-Miller

That might help Donald Trump. It might hurt some other candidates. What are what are the concerns that are that are raised?

Steve Scheffler

I haven't heard a lot of those yet. I mean, I think people don't think about these things maybe until we get real close. And again, I would defer to Jeff that we're still you know, the Constitution is clear what we have to allow and everything, you know.

Jeff Kaufmann

And Steve, if I could add to that, a lot of our a lot of our campaigns, a lot of our candidates have already started preparation for same day voter registration. And actually, there's a there's a probably a more compelling argument that changing it will actually hurt the Trump campaign, which is why it was ridiculous to somehow indicate that that the legislature was doing something for Donald Trump.

Jeff Kaufmann

There would be pushback from a lot of our candidates. There would be pushback from some of our grassroots activists. It as you indicated in your question. It's a little bit of a two edged sword. There are people on each side of it. We just have to make very sure we're following the Constitution and we have to make sure that the other 160 plus voters in the RNC know that we're not changing rules at the last minute and understand that our our candidates have to be satisfied that Iowa is treating them in a neutral and objective fashion.

Jeff Kaufmann

So it's a multilayered perception kind of situation as well.

Kay Henderson

Steve Scheffler, you've worked on a presidential campaign. How important is having that ability to register people on the day of the caucuses to a presidential campaign?

Steve Scheffler

I think it's probably helpful. But if the campaigns are doing their job and their work, you know, they've identified these people in advance. You know, you got staffers who their job is to get people committed and to actually turn them out. And so I think that most of them understand that 95% that work has to be done in advance and not to count on those late registration or people to come in and help their candidate.

Kay Henderson

Let us talk about perhaps the reporting of the 2024 Iowa caucuses. Do you have an agreement for the software that will be used to have those results posted electronically?

Jeff Kaufmann

We are in conversations with various entities at that point. At this point, I am not trying to be intentionally coy with you. We will. I'm actually quite anxious to share the fruition of some of our conversations, and I'll do that probably as we did for, I guess it would be eight years ago. I will do that in a press conference.

Jeff Kaufmann

In fact, whatever we do, I can promise you this. It will be transparent and media and the rest of Iowans are going to be able to see the results very, very quickly, almost in real time. And then, of course, we have to have a situation where everything can be audited very quickly. We do not want delays and and we want to be as quick and accurate as possible.

Jeff Kaufmann

So, yes, we are very, very active in that pursuit right now.

Kay Henderson

Steve Scheffler, you've been a member of the Republican Party of Iowa Central Committee for quite some time. The 2020, the 2012 rather, caucuses had a different result on caucus night. And then after this audit, what concerns are being raised on the committee among decision makers about ensuring that the results match?

Steve Scheffler

Well, I think our track record in 16 and 20 was very, very good. So I don't hear those concerns at all among RNC members. Whether it's going to be transparency. I mean, I think they're expecting and it will be that it will be it will be it will be done to perfection. So I don't hear in those concerns at all that we might botch things up at all.

Kay Henderson

Let's talk about the field. There are several candidates. I'm not going to say how many running. When I when an Iowan goes to a caucus, will they get a piece of paper that lists the names? Will there be sort of an unofficial ballot or will people just write a name on a piece of paper and submit it as their vote in the caucus?

Jeff Kaufmann

Part of that, that decision has not been made and all we can do is suggest to the counties what they do, but we try to certainly have something standard in terms of how that's reported. In 16, I believe we did have a ballot. There were 17 individuals. Right now, I can think probably an argument for 13 individuals that would be viable that should be placed there.

Jeff Kaufmann

I think anything to make it efficient and I would much rather much rather have the time spent debating back and forth that after all, that's why we have a caucus in terms of advocating for their candidate rather than repeating for the third time in a row. Now, what choices do we have again so.

Kay Henderson

That they spell the name correct?

Jeff Kaufmann

Absolutely. We have to we we would have to believe me, every one of the campaigns, there's 13 of them. We'd have to run everything through. We are meticulously neutral and we'll continue to be in terms of what we do on caucus night.

Erin Murphy

Well, circle back to something you touched on earlier and the your concern about disaffected Republicans, I think, was your phrase and maybe Democrats wanting to participate in the Republican caucuses as a way to put their thumb on the scale, so to speak. Do you have any. I feel like that's something that kind of comes up from time to time in previous cycles.

Erin Murphy

And I don't know that we've ever determined that that actually happened in any great degree. Is there any evidence is there any reason for heightened concern this cycle?

Jeff Kaufmann

Yes or no? Let me clarify. The disaffected Republicans, what I'm talking about is groups coming in that would specifically try to advocate for either voting for a particular candidate or voting against a particular candidate that is not associated with the campaign. So I that's what I meant about that in that particular case. We have seen some speculation. We've seen some some back and forth about how to possibly gain that system.

Jeff Kaufmann

But you're absolutely right, Aaron, That has come up in the past. We have seen nothing other than a fear. And remember, we have also a unique situation here, because if the Democrats indeed are going to continue to not allow their other two Democratic candidates to be a part of their caucus, we don't even know for sure what they're going to do yet.

Jeff Kaufmann

I don't know any more than anyone else knows at this point. You know, you could have a situation where you have Democrats with a lot of time on their hands on caucus night. I would hope since they have done less than a stellar job with their own caucuses, I would hope they would not try to do something to harm ours.

Jeff Kaufmann

We've already going to have a more difficult time holding 2028 because of their decision making to this point.

Erin Murphy

Steve, several of your plugged in have you heard anything? Do you what's your level of concern about this type of activity happening in the Republican caucuses?

Steve Scheffler

Well, I feel confident, you know, that Jeff and the whole team, you know, on the staff are going to put together this thing in a very perfect manner. And so I don't have a lot of those concerns. I mean, yeah, naturally there is, you know, but that's a guessing game. But I feel pretty confident it's going to go off very well without a floor, without a hiccup at all.

Steve Scheffler

So.

Jeff Kaufmann

And Aaron, one thing would be interesting, I'm sure to all of you remember, it is illegal. It is in Iowa code that you cannot participate in two caucuses. So that is against the law. So if there is a situation where you would have Democrats attempting to do that, they would be breaking the law very clearly in code.

Erin Murphy

And wanted to ask you, Chairman Kaufmann, your colleague on the Democratic side, Chairwoman Rita Hart, on this show a couple of weeks ago said that the January 15th date was set, was sort of a surprise to them, was was without their input. Traditionally, you've talked about this before, that the two parties in Iowa, the one thing they do agree on is working together on the caucuses.

Erin Murphy

Has that not been the case as much lately? Are you how much are you working with Democrats.

Erin Murphy

On this.

Jeff Kaufmann

Without giving away personal confidences of personal conversations I have had? I have given advice after advice after advice on how to hold the how to make sure that 2028 is going to occur and how to make sure that we thread this needle and honor one half century agreement with New Hampshire and others. My advice? I feel like I'm whistling in the wind.

Jeff Kaufmann

To be quite frank. And so I have tried. I have gone to I have actually stated very clearly what I think should happen. This is the first time I've had this issue and I've been the I've been through. This is my third caucus. This is my sixth Democratic chair. And I'm just going to leave it at that. I'm not going to give away specific components.

Erin Murphy

Are you running against the brick wall because of the state party or the national party, in your view?

Jeff Kaufmann

I think the National Party caused all of this. I think Joe Biden made it worse because he knew he couldn't win in Iowa. And unfortunately, I would not have made several of the decisions to react as the Iowa the Iowa Democrats have done.

Stephen Gruber-Miller

So the 2024 race polling shows that Donald Trump is far and away the frontrunner here, even though you mentioned all of these candidates we have. This is despite the fact that he's facing several different criminal indictments. Right. This may end up hurting him with independent voters in a general election in 2024. What is the plan to deal with that and is that a concern?

Jeff Kaufmann

Sure. The and I would say this as a preface, remember the job in the of course, you all know this. I'm saying this mostly for all Iowans. And actually I said this caught blue in the face to some of my colleagues of the RNC. The job of Iowa is to test these candidates, is to ask these candidates. So even if we have somebody win the Iowa caucus by 20 points, if we've given the other 12 a fair hearing, we have done our job.

Jeff Kaufmann

In terms of your specific question with former President Trump, I handle these caucuses like I do a primary. I set the tone, make sure everybody has a voice, everybody has a fair hearing. I think you could talk to any of the 13 candidates right now and they tell you that they feel the Republican Party of Iowa is strong.

Jeff Kaufmann

I have got to wait to see what the grassroots tell me. I cannot have the attitude that I know best what they should tell me, but I have to react to that at that point. Whoever our nominee is, whoever it is, out of the 13 or maybe someone else, I will be on their team.

Stephen Gruber-Miller

Steve Scheffler We mentioned the indictments. Their personal behavior is frequently raised as a concern about Donald Trump, but we see evangelical voters, self-described evangelicals, continue to support him. Help us understand what the appeal is from Donald Trump to those voters.

Steve Scheffler

I think, by and large, it's what he did, you know, in terms of people that he put on the court, Supreme Court, appellate court and district courts, what he did in terms of moving the the embassy from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv, a whole wide range of things that conservative voters and evangelicals were wanting to see happen for years and years.

Steve Scheffler

And so please remember, these people are not monolithic. They don't think exactly like on every single issue. But the bottom line is, you know, these people are looking for electing a leader. They're not looking for somebody. They're going to act as their pastor or their priest. So they want somebody that's going to push back against the radical agenda of the Biden administration.

Steve Scheffler

So and again, I respect those voters and what they the decisions they make. You know, and I you know, I view our organization as a matchmaker, not a kingmaker. We just want to match the candidates with those candidates and then let them make the decision from there. But they're looking for somebody to lead, push back against this radical agenda.

Stephen Gruber-Miller

There's other candidates who are trying to kind of claim that mantle. Right. Of, you know, touting their Christian faith. Right. Really emphasizing that. Is there room for them to break in with these voters?

Steve Scheffler

Well, if you look at the eight and the 12 and the 16 caucuses, you know, those caucus winners were people that were not expected initially to win the caucuses.

Steve Scheffler

And so it's probably fair to say that Donald Trump has the inside track. But anything can happen. You know, it depends. You know, putting in the hard work is certainly a big thing, you know, in terms of identifying your people and turning them out. So anything could happen at this point. I think, you know.

Kay Henderson

Steve Scheffler, this summer, Donald Trump expressed frustration with Iowa Governor Kim Reynolds for not endorsing him. Is that a smart move in a state where she is the most popular Republican?

Steve Scheffler

Let's put it this way, Governor Reynolds is the most popular Republican probably in Iowa statewide, and I respect her. I think she's done a great job. And so I'll let that conversation be between the two of them. But I think our governor is greatly respected and what she's done in terms of pushing legislation, anti woke, the right to life issue, you know, shrinking government.

Steve Scheffler

And so I think we've got a great governor. I'll leave it at that.

Kay Henderson

Jeff Kaufmann, smooth move on Donald Trump's part.

Jeff Kaufmann

I would say for four years after 2016, people, Republicans love Donald Trump and Kim Reynolds. I would assume that people are going to continue to have that that idea regardless if Donald or if Donald Trump is our nominee. I if I started to second guess the campaign techniques of Donald Trump, I would be in big trouble in terms of my track record prediction.

Jeff Kaufmann

I can say this about Kim Reynolds, though I would agree she is the most popular Republican in the state and I see absolutely nothing that's going to detract from that.

Erin Murphy

And speaking of that, she has Governor Reynolds has left open the possibility of of endorsing in this field. Just as I wrote down a couple of things you said just earlier in the show. You want Iowa, too, to be neutral and objective, give candidates a fair hearing. Do you have any concern that if the wildly popular Republican governor of Iowa endorses a candidate, that that threatens that perceived objectivity and neutrality in the Iowa caucus and makes your job of keeping Iowa first, any harder.

Jeff Kaufmann

I'm sure. And when it's all said and done, I have control over the Republican Party of Iowa and myself, and I would not endorse. I can't constitutionally. In terms of Kim Reynolds, she has done her job in terms of where of what Iowa's supposed to do, and that is present these candidates. She made a conscious decision not to endorse, not to get involved.

Jeff Kaufmann

Right now. Everyone was invited to her interviews at the state fair. I think she has set the tone that everybody is welcome here that's going to ultimately have to be her decision.

Erin Murphy

So you don't have any concern that an endorsement could change the way future candidates view campaigning in Iowa?

Jeff Kaufmann

I don't think so. I mean, we've had we've had endorsements from high profile Republicans in the past. I will say she is probably the only endorsement of any Republican in the state that could possibly move a needle. She's that popular.

Stephen Gruber-Miller

You know, I want to talk about an issue that's been in the news and in the campaign trail, abortion that polling has shown, and it's a series of special elections around the country have shown it's maybe not a winning issue for Republicans after Roe v Wade was overturned last year. There have been some losses that have been associated with when the debate was really focused on abortion.

Stephen Gruber-Miller

Do Republicans need a different approach to this to avoid further losses in 2024?

Jeff Kaufmann

I think, you know, I'll answer that question by calling upon Governor Reynolds again. Before her reelection. She was crystal clear where she stood on the abortion issue. She was very straightforward and she won overwhelming. So I think standing on the side of life is certainly going to be more popular, even with those that don't agree straight down the middle with some of the bills that were passed is going to be inherently more Iowan and more mainstream than abortion on demand up to the point of birth, which I challenge any of you to find a mainstream Democrat or a national Democrat that will actually say, I do not believe in that.

Jeff Kaufmann

They'll say it doesn't happen very much. So if you've got a voter that doesn't agree necessarily with either position, I will guarantee you that they're going to move towards life more than they're going to move towards abortion on demand up to the point of birth.

Stephen Gruber-Miller

Steve Scheffler, do you have additional thoughts on this, how Republicans should be talking about this issue?

Steve Scheffler

I totally agree with Jeff. You know, the candidates need to be on the offensive, not the defensive. And if you look at a bill that was debated and voted on maybe a year ago, Joe Manchin was the only Democrat that voted against a bill that would have codified abortion through the moment of birth.

Steve Scheffler

Even Susan Collins and Lisa murkowski voted against that. Bill is a bridge too far. So you reframe it about what are the consequences of late term abortions and all that. I think it's a winning issue, that life is precious and to be protected.

Kay Henderson

We have about 3 minutes left. Both of you are Republicans of long standing in Iowa. I would guess that candidates or prospective candidates call you Steve Scheffler. What's your advice to them about running? I mean, we have a huge field. Do you ever tell anybody they should think twice?

Steve Scheffler

I never tell them that because I'm not the one to judge whether they should run or not. The one thing I do encourage them is that they've got to work their rear end off and they have got to engage voters and they got to identify caucus goers, because if you look at Marco Rubio when he ran, he was a great candidate, but he spent all of his time in metro areas and not a lot in rural areas.

Steve Scheffler

And so on caucus night, he did well in metro areas, but not so well in in rural areas. So my advice is work your tail off in all parts of the state, identify people, get them on paper, turn them out, have a caucus representative all night to speak on your behalf of those few that may be wavering at the last minute.

Kay Henderson

You said moments ago that maybe someone else will run. Has someone called you?

Jeff Kaufmann

No, actually, no. But there there could be someone at the last minute. Okay. And be genuine. Try to. Not you. The candidates. The candidates are always genuine. But the be be genuine. Boldly state your position and take it to the people. You'll see. At our Lincoln Dinner we aired on the side of allowing people to speak that may or may not have been viable.

Jeff Kaufmann

I think that's my job.

Erin Murphy

Speaking of campaigning in Iowa, there seems to have been a change. And Stephen's paper did some reporting on this about the frequency of candidates coming here this cycle compared to previous and maybe that being a product of the debate, qualifying rules with with such large fields, these last two cycles, there's been a priority, an emphasis on qualifying for the debates, maybe at the detriment to being in Iowa.

Erin Murphy

Jeff, do you have any concerns that that has that debate qualifying requirements have taken away from candidates being in pizza ranches in Iowa instead?

Jeff Kaufmann

I think it's a valid question to to ask, and I appreciate the reports on that. At this point, I'm still sensing the frequency of visits is good enough for those candidates in terms of what they're trying to do. What I like about our debate qualifying is they're slowly ramping up the requirements for being a part of it. I we had to do something.

Jeff Kaufmann

I mean, we had to do something. The two debate format was not highlighting Republicans. And let's face it, we're heading up to a convention which is a four day commercial, and that's what that is. And we need to make sure that we are competing at that level of presenting these candidates. I don't think you can do that with two debates.

Jeff Kaufmann

So, yes, I think it's a valid question to ask and to attempt to answer. Right now, I'm I'm more happy with what they've decided to do with the debates to address that other issue that I am somehow that we're we're suffering from visits.

Erin Murphy

Yes, these people are You're having a quick thoughts on that.

Steve Scheffler

I think Jeff's exactly right. You know, I think there has to be some level that when you get that far close to the caucuses and then the states that are after that, you know, the viability factor, you know, so I think at some point in time you have to weed it out. And I think those thresholds are low enough that it shouldn't be that difficult if you're going to be viable for the long term.

Kay Henderson

Speaking of point in time, gentlemen, we are out of time for this discussion. Thanks for joining us today. Thanks to.

Steve Scheffler

All. Good to be here.

Kay Henderson

You can watch every episode of Iowa Press at Iowa PBS.org for everyone here at Iowa PBS. Thanks for watching today.

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