Mike Franken

Henderson:

Mike Franken of Sioux city is the Democrat trying to unseat incumbent Republican Chuck Grassley this fall. Franken sits down with us on this edition of Iowa Press.

Voiceover:

Funding for Iowa Press was provided by Friends, the Iowa PBS Foundation. The Associated General Contractors of Iowa, the public's partner in building Iowa's highway, bridge and municipal utility infrastructure. Fuel Iowa is a voice and a resource for Iowa's fuel industry. Our members offer a diverse range of products, including fuel, grocery, and convenience items. They help keep Iowans on the move in rural and urban communities. Together, we fuel Iowa. Small businesses are the backbone of Iowa's communities, and they are backed by Iowa banks. With advice, loans and financial services, banks across Iowa are committed to showing small businesses the way to a stronger tomorrow. Learn more at iowabankers.com. For decades. Iowa Press has brought you political leaders and news makers from across Iowa and beyond. Celebrating 50 years of broadcast excellence on statewide Iowa PBS...this is the Friday, June 24th edition of Iowa Press. Here is Kay Henderson.

Henderson:

Our guest for this episode of Iowa Press ran for the U.S. Senate in 2020. Democrats chose Theresa Greenfield to run against Joni Ernst that year. This year, Democrats gave him 55% of the vote in the primary and have chosen him to challenge Republican Senator Chuck Grassley. Congratulations on your victory.

Franken:

Thank you. Kay.

Henderson:

Admiral Mike Franken, welcome to Iowa Press.

Franken:

Very pleased. Thank you.

Henderson:

Also joining our conversation, are Thomas Beaumont of The Associated Press, and Erin Murphy of The Gazette in Cedar Rapids.

Murphy:

Admiral Franken, during that primary campaign, your pitch to Iowa Democrats was you are the candidate who can beat Chuck Grassley. That was even on a bumper sticker that your campaigned employed. I can beat Chuck Grassley. You have that opportunity now. How do you do that? And specifically, I'm curious where other Democrats have failed in recent years, for example, Theresa Greenfield. Sure. As Kay mentioned, two years ago, where are the votes for Mike Franken that weren't there for previous Iowa Democrats statewide?

Franken:

Well, the bumper sticker actually said, I believe now we're changing it to, I can. The difference, I think is, is another passage of six years. The situation which is happening in the Supreme Court today the, I, I believe the, the echo chamber that is Washington DC, the divisiveness, et cetera. And I'm a different candidate. This is an opportunity for Iowans the first time in, in many election cycles where no outside entity has chosen the candidate for the, for the Democratic party. This is Iowa voters, both independents and Democrats, some Republicans, perhaps, who said it's time for change.

Murphy:

You look at the statewide map back when Iowa Democrats won some of these statewide races, which hasn't happened by the way in a Senate or governor race since Tom Harkin in 2008. There were more blue counties than counties like Dubuque County, Wapello County.

Franken:

Yeah.

Murphy:

Some of these other counties that Democrats used to win in Iowa. Are those the ones you're trying to get back? And, how do you do that?

Franken:

Well, it's not, we're targeting some counties indeed. But we have in the course of running in the primary, we've had events in 50-some different counties, maybe 60. And we've stayed on TV long enough to, to have name recognition. And those counties that we weren't on TV, I didn't have the name recognition and consequently, we didn't win. Abby Finkenauer had a better name recognition for, for all the good reasons that she was a fabulous candidate. So the plan is to get out there. And so in the last five days we've, we've visited a dozen counties. It is, it is how to win. So we are not targeting Democratic counties or Republican counties. We're visiting all. In every courthouse every chamber of commerce we're making ourself available. And I believe we have a better message. I believe I can answer the questions. And I don't have the legacy of Chuck Grassley, which has, I think, going to bedraggle him going forward.

Murphy:

And how do you get to those swing voters, especially those who could be persuadable during a time when nationally Democrats are struggling with approval numbers. The president has poor approval numbers here in Iowa. How do you, as the Democratic candidate go to those places and to those voters and convince them to vote for you?

Franken:

Well, when you, when you've got a candidate that the people can trust, they rely, they rely on. And they've got a history of doing national business properly. And I think that's my moniker. They look past the party politics. This is a state where some counties went 20% for Barack Obama and four years later, 20% for Donald Trump. So there are swing voters. People who vote their conscience, vote their future, vote what's best for their children. And I'm reliant on them to continue that, that, that legacy forward. And I think I think we'll get good traction.

Beaumont:

Admiral, I have to ask, how do you compete with Chuck Grassley's millions when Democrats nationally, when the moneyed donors who are looking at competitive Senate races, are looking at your race, considering it, weighing it, but have better opportunities perhaps now for Democrat pickups in the Senate in Wisconsin and now Missouri.

Franken:

Sure. Well, I, I think that's true as it stands with the polls that were done before the primary. I think what we'll see when the Des Moines Register does a poll or maybe Iowa PBS does a poll. Some other entity outside from the candidates. We'll find out that there is a great opportunity in the state of Iowa. And I think with our, with our House candidates in the U.S. House and those in the Statehouse, we will have a lot of traction. For instance, I was called by a fella in, in Los Angeles, out of the blue. And he has a, a lobbying company of 60 associates and they sat around and they looked at all this other states, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Texas, et cetera. And they said, you know what, Iowa. Iowa's the state that has the best opportunity to switch an, an entire color just like that. And we're investing in Iowa. We think that's the future.

Henderson:

But it sounds as if you're saying you need a poll to convince more donors.

Franken:

I think we do Kay. I, I, to my sense is we've been, Iowa's slipping and Iowa's not the state that it used to be. It's not that progressive forward leaning state with a vibrant multifaceted economy and a great education base and something that really cares for, for an increase in quality of life. We've slipped in that regard. And consequently, if you speak to people in Washington on this matter, they'll say we're a level two or three race. We need to become a level one race. Our internal polling, both before the primary and happening right now, shows that we can beat Chuck Grassley and with decent numbers,

Henderson:

Tom,

Beaumont:

Let's cut to the news.

Franken:

Sure.

Beaumont:

Obviously the U.S. Supreme Court in overturning Roe brings abortion right to the fore, as we knew it would before the election. You have endorsed codifying Roe. But doesn't the court's decision effectively make that moot? And what next?

Franken:

I don't know regarding that, the initial question. I will say that I find it particularly alarming that the first thing the court does to really stake its mostly partisan perspective has to do with women. And I think the second thing they're gonna end up doing is going after minority rights. And I believe this is going down a path, pushing things to the state, which is directly in line with what the Republicans have been working for for 30 years. Win local elections, win state elections, push things down to the state, and we can have our way. And we'll have those blue states and red states and we'll have another Confederacy of sorts. I think it's absolutely inimical to this nation. And this is just not going to go well. And of all the things to go after, after 50 some years, Roe. And here we are, Chuck Grassley's legacy. And I'm so sorry for the state of Iowa, that in a, in a grand decades of service, it ends up being the person who really has given us this mostly partisan Supreme Court and has politicized it in the manner in which, in which they're showing now.

Beaumont:

But to be clear in the intervening weeks, you haven't thought what a federal role might be, knowing that overturning Roe was perhaps likely.

Franken:

Well, I'm a science guy. I'm not a constitutional lawyer. I'm not entirely sure. I, I had a call in with a person of that ilk this morning to get that sense. And I shouldn't say on air, what exactly how this is gonna go, but I don't believe it's gonna go well. And I believe this will be one more divisive issue. And I think the Republicans have definitely outplayed their hand

Murphy:

During the primary, you were against expanding the Supreme Court, something that Democrats have, some Democrats, have wanted. Yeah. Does this change your mind at all on that?

Franken:

No, it doesn't. Although I get a lot of encouragement to consider that. I do believe we should have a constitutional amendment that truncates a Supreme Court justice's tour. I mean, that's just common sense. And whether it's 12 years, it's 18 years, something to that effect. We shouldn't have people in for longevity for, for such long periods. And mostly every two years or so where a president can choose a new justice de-politicizes it so much so that there's not this gaming of retirements. It's just not good for us all.

Murphy:

Something else we wanna ask you about that happened this week, and depending on when folks are watching this, may already be passed by both the House and Senate and maybe even to President Biden's desk is legislation that was designed to address recent mass shootings. Includes some modest gun control measures, some school safety measures, some mental healthcare measures. Your opponentChuck Grassley, voted against that. But if you look at what has happened in Iowa and the state legislature here, obviously with Republican control, gun regulations have loosened in recent years. So was Chuck Grassley, was he not just voting his constituents in that case?

Franken:

Well, if, if he was, he should say that. He instead makes an excuse, that not enough time, thinks due process, et cetera. Doesn't really make a statement pro or against gun rights. It's interesting that I see as a military person, that having defended democracy, I see this basic tenant of democracy where the state holds governance and over, or the, the federal government holds, holds governance over the states to be crippled in the manner in which the Supreme Court's doing. And Chuck Grassley's part of this. It's unfortunate. And interesting about guns is I can think of no other example than if hail is damaging your crops, more hail is gonna be a good thing. Or flooding is damaging your farm, more flooding is gonna be a good thing. So flooding the market with guns, irresponsible gun ownership, that's the key. And no one's gonna gunsplain me on firearms, ever. And I wish they would've called me as a, as a witness, cuz it's an odd thing in America today where school children's biggest threat are firearms. And having been responsible for areas in the, in the world, Somalia, Yemen elsewhere. It's just interesting that here in America, we hold that distinction. And it's really unfortunate, because what the Supreme Court just did will make that worse.

Murphy:

And so despite that, I also wanted to ask you about during the primary, you didn't go so far as embracing a ban on AR-15 or similarly styled assault, weapons. Whatever term you choose to use for those types of guns. Why is that? Why, especially, you know, when people make the case that that exact type of gun is what's always used in these mass shootings, especially at schools. Why not get those off the street?

Franken:

Well, it's not always used. Sometimes a nine millimeter fire handgun is used. For example, the dance club in Florida and other ones. There's AK-47s. There's all sorts of derivations. Tech nines, nine millimeter rapid fire semiautomatic pistols, et cetera. You've gotta be very careful with this. But when the 556 round came out, I don't mean to go to go gun on us all, but it was a five round magazine that was sold to the public. And the manufacturer of that firearm was a big gun gun hunter. He never hunted with that firearm. It wasn't designed. It's designed for people to shoot other people. It's not designed for a hunting rifle. It's odd. It shows the, pardon the expression, but it's true, the ignorance of the Iowa Republicans in the Statehouse to make that a firearm used for deer hunting this year. It's ignorance. And and shame on them for doing that because it's just not, it's just not good for hunting in general. I can go on and on, on this topic. And I believe I would be the level voice regarding the types of firearms. Be careful with that. You're treating a symptom. The biggest thing is treat the ailment, and that is irresponsible individuals with firearms.

Murphy:

So how do you do that?

Franken:

Well, there's various ways. The military has, for decades, Congressionally mandated, sold firearms to private citizens. And we do, and we do that through a five step process to ensure that they're of sound mind, sound body, and are well scripted with what to do with a firearm and schooled on how to store it and clear it, and how it should stay away from children, et cetera. And to the best of my knowledge, never has one of those firearms been used for a mass shooting, because we sell them to responsible individuals. There's other things you can do by typecasting fingerprinting a firearm from a ballistics perspective and tracking it through its life. These are the things we should do, and then address the types of firearms and magazine size, and a host of other things. We can do this. And as a society, we owe it to society to fix this.

Beaumont:

You describe your career in the military as having defended democracy. I would have to think the, the recent January 6th hearings might, might prompt some, some feelings in you. And I wanted to know if you expected to use Senator Grassley's at times reticence in saying that Joe Biden won the election, if you expect to use that as a campaign issue. And if you think that that is something that can inspire voters who may not be you know motivated to vote in the midterm.

Franken:

Sure.

Beaumont:

To not just vote but vote for you.

Franken:

Well, I don't believe I'm much different from any Iowan who wants to ensure that we come clean if we think a transgression occurred. And everybody involved needs to come clean. What happened? Why was it, what occurred? What do you mean, Senator Grassley, that you thought Vice President Pence wasn't going to be there and you would be president protem? What did you really mean by that? How would you have ruled on the matters before you? What did you know? And don't let your staff do this business. Walk in front of the committee, swear an oath and make a statement. Be a leader. Step out. You're supposed to be that individual. You're the senior Senator, almost in all of the Senate. Act like it. And he's not.

Beaumont:

I see what you mean. He has said you know, when pressed, that after the count of the electoral vote, Joe Biden is president. And that doesn't, that stops short of saying what a lot of Republicans have said or had trouble saying is Joe Biden won. Is, is, is that something that you think that you will make a campaign issue?

Franken:

Well, he's, so on other situations in town halls, he has the opportunity to refute the blatant lies associated with January 6th. And every time that I've seen on camera he's had the opportunity to refute all that, he has not. One time, he agreed with the premise of the question that the protestors were just patriots protesting what was a misguided election. And they're in gulag-like situations because of the conspiring FBI and Capitol Police. It's absolutely absurd. It's unfortunate that Iowa's being represented by a person of that blindness to reality. It's time for him to go.

Henderson:

On the campaign trail, you have said that you want Iowa to return to its progressive past, and you wanna be the change agent for that. But if you are elected, you'll be in Washington DC voting on federal laws. So let's go through some of the laws that progressives are advocating. Medicare for all.

Franken:

I think we oughta have the type of healthcare that I had in 40 years in the military. So did my family. That permitted us to live this full and really committed life. Preventive, dental, sight. Even for a special needs daughter. However it mutates into use the various words, the Medicare for all, the single payer, universal, et cetera. However it may become, that's what every American deserves. We will be a more efficient and a healthier population if we take a clue from the U.S Military and just copy the type of healthcare they provide.

Murphy:

How about environmental policies. The Green New Deal, quote unquote. And that sometimes means different things to different people But how far, how progressive are you willing to be on environmental policy?

Franken:

Well, the Green New Deal, isn't a policy. It's a stretch goal. It's stating this is what we should achieve. And these are eventualities. It hasn't been costed out, et cetera, et cetera. But there's a series of things that we should do. And Iowa has a great opportunity to be in the catbird seat and be advantaged by it because of our wind and our potential for solar, potential for solar grazing. Our opportunities for ethanol to produce electricity here, using U.S. Technology and using the, just changing the electrical grid in the state of Iowa. Changing the agricultural opportunities for growers, for co-ops in the state of Iowa. Iowa becomes this raving fabulous spot for environmental concerns, where farmers are cheered by environmental groups for doing more than their share to arrest carbon.

Henderson:

You mentioned growers. What's your view of medical marijuana legalized nationwide and recreational marijuana legalized nationwide?

Franken:

Well, <laugh> just came up in speaking to a large union group this morning. And it's interesting where we are with that in America. I view the medicinal use of marijuana and the recreational use, controlled much like we do with alcohol, to be absolutely fine and well overdue. And we should have the federal statutes put in place where money, revenue generated by taxing THC is used for interstate commerce just like it would for anything else. So I have no issues whatsoever with that. And it's overdue.

Beaumont:

I don't think anybody encapsulates Iowa's progressive tradition as well as Tom Harkin. And he was a devout advocate of union rights. And I want to know what you would propose in terms of union rights policy.

Franken:

Well, the heat's on me because I'll probably talk to him this weekend on this top topic. <Laugh> I hope anyway. He'll criticize me if I do this wrong. I'm a big fan of union rights. And I think the unions in the state of Iowa are on the ascendancy. And as I told them this morning there's no daylight between their desires and mine.

Beaumont:

You say on the ascendancy. I mean, in the state legislature union rights have been cut. So explain to me how they're on the ascendancy in Iowa.

Franken:

I think businesses and communities like very much the opportunity to have unions in them. Because they increase the wage scale of everyone. They, you know, if you look at JBS in Marshalltown, the number of years union members stay there, the manner in which they give immigrants an opportunity to get U.S. Citizenship. And Iowa can't possibly get enough workers. They are a great additive. A I see the economy in Marshalltown and Storm Lake and South Sioux City, Nebraska, and elsewhere flourishing because of those unions. And I spoke to the mayor yesterday in Marshalltown as well. 100% on board with what they offer. Number one employer. And it's a good employer. And there's a hand in glove relationship between the union and the city. This is a good thing. And I think the rest of Iowa will see this. We will become a leader in such jobs. And I'll tell you, with someone with a little bit of verve and what can be done on the river - Mississippi and the Missouri. I see river commerce to explode in the next 10 years. And the work that needs to be done in the locks and dams. Those are union jobs. And the infrastructure bill. Those are union jobs. This is the time to invest in unions, and we will all be better for it.

Henderson:

You have said on the campaign trail that you want to revive the Iowa Democratic Party. You grew up in Northwest Iowa. You were in the military for 36 years, retired. When you came back, were you surprised by how the Democratic Party was functioning in the state?

Franken:

I didn't know the intricacies. I just knew the feeling, the sensibilities in the state. So I didn't just suddenly come back after a long absence. As my wife would say, oh great, we're going back to Iowa. Or great, we got a four day weekend, where are we going in Iowa this time? Because this is where we always came back. My parents, my siblings. Come from a big family. It's where we always came back. So I saw these, these periodic touchstones multiple times every year. Certainly during Christmas, if I was not on deployment. So I saw the change in the state of Iowa. Mostly working on the Fox News constant drumbeat and that just, people just talked differently. They talked differently at church. People became more right wing. I would like to, you know, I would, that's not Iowa's legacy. Iowa's a state that looked at gay marriage way before the rest of the United States did. We looked at where women can become members of the bar, where women can go to college. This is Iowa's legacy. This isn't you know. And the Republicans attack me that, oh, I wanna suddenly become more like California. No, no, no. We used to be far more leaning forward with such matters than states like California.

Henderson:

And I need to lean forward and say, we are out of time on this edition of Iowa Press. Thank you very much for joining us today.

Franken:

Thank you. Thank you, Kay. My pleasure.

Henderson:

You can watch every episode of Iowa Press at iowapbs.Org. For everyone here at the network, thanks for watching.

Voiceover:

Funding for Iowa Press was provided by Friends, the Iowa PBS Foundation. The Associated General Contractors of Iowa, the public's partner in building Iowa's highway, bridge and municipal utility infrastructure. Fuel Iowa's a voice and a resource for Iowa's fuel industry. Our members offer a diverse range of products, including fuel, grocery, and convenience items. They help keep Iowans on the move in rural and urban communities. Together, we fuel Iowa. Small businesses are the backbone of Iowa's communities and they are backed by Iowa banks. With advice, loans and financial services, banks across Iowa are committed to showing small businesses the way to a stronger tomorrow. Learn more at iowabankers.com.