DIAL keeps venturing into new ways to improve agriculture

[Iowa Soybean Association]  Iowa Soybean Association is driven to deliver for Iowa's 40,000 soybean farmers. We’re proud to provide objective agronomic research, a helping hand with soil and water stewardship and timely industry news powered by the soybean checkoff. Learn more at iasoybeans.com.

Hey, everybody, it's Paul Yeager, this is the MToM Show podcast to production of Iowa PBS and the Market to Market TV show. Glad to have you here. We're going again, in the technology realm, we're going to go back with Allan Gray with DIAL Ventures. Remember, they are at Purdue University. And I'm not going to say it's a think tank, but it's a way to take an idea and turn it into reality. The way a lot of schools universities have gone to is like the incubator of business. But we're gonna talk about three companies, one in particular, that's, that's coming through agriculture right now, that's impacting the way we grow, raise, sell, produce food, and fuel, and all the things we talked about and Market to Market. So that's what we're gonna discuss. I mean, I have AI automation, we're gonna talk about how one might be a tool. And it's not the only thing driving the world, but it is a buzzword. So we will discuss AI here in just a moment, I guess I just let the cat out of the bag. We'll also talk about telling the farmer’s story. If you have an email or a tip for me, email me at Paul.Yeager@IowaPBS.org. I look forward to hearing from you. Now, let's get to Allan Gray. Alan, you're a hard guy to pin down, you've been busy. Why? What's going on? 

[Allan Gray]   We're keeping DIAL running as fast as we can, you know, trying to create impact on the industry and seeing if we can get some companies created. And, you know, for us, it's like flywheel just runs all the time. So we're staying busy.

[Paul Yeager]  Give me an overview. How DIAL, I guess, is now, versus when we last talked a year ago? Has anything changed?

[Allan]  Well, you know, the main thing that's changed, Paul, I think is that we've gotten more and more connections to the industry, which means we're getting more and more feedback from the industry. Of course, we continue to bring in our new fellows all the new talents that we bring in, in that in our Innovation Fellows Program. So since last year, we've had two more fellows cohorts come through the program. More and more companies keep providing us with feedback, more and more people are interested in what we're doing. And we're creating companies. So we've created two new companies since the last time that we talked, we're excited about opening Gripp, and continuing to move towards creating our next new companies.

[Paul] Well, new companies are important to have ideas go into reality. Though has it gone, like vision, like you envisioned?

[Allan] Oh, yeah. In some ways that has some ways maybe is has, Paul, I would say, you know, the way I envisioned this from the start was that we wanted to interact with the industry in ways that were important to them. So let's make sure that every time we do anything related to creating new startup companies that it's because the industry says this is what we need. And then we're developing those needed pieces, we've been doing that and I think we've been really effective at following the lead of the industry to say let's create the things you want to do. Now, what's been unexpected, I don't ever know exactly where the industry is going to send us. So you know, you might ask me, Paul, what's your next company gonna be? I don't know. We gotta wait and see where the industry leaves us each time. So So for us, it's kind of new and different every six months, we do this.

[Paul] And I guess I also want to have you define industry? Because to me, your industry could be extremely wide. What do you define as your industry?

[Allan] Yeah, we think about the vertical first. So agriculture and food. And we really do think about that nexus between ag and food. And then we think about it mostly focused on supply chain. So when you think about food, the thing we don't spend a lot of time on is the consumer, not to consumers not important. Of course, Paul, there's a reason why we need change in our agri food supply chain is to meet the needs of end demands of consumers of the future. Right. But what we are really focusing on is sort of think of us as consumer packaged goods companies back right through the chain, and all the way back to basic fertilizer mining, and all the pieces in between there and how do we get those connections between them? How do we think about digital solutions that help either folks within one piece of that industry across that industry work together.

[Paul] Because I think people who I think you're dealing with and those who have ideas like that they need a certain kind of shepherding and it's an idea, logistics, talking about getting to the consumer. That's where I think logistics is. Is that a fair assessment?

[Allan] Yeah, certainly logistics and supply chain is a big part of that. Information sharing is a big part. That transparency is a big part of that. Traceability is a big part of that. So yeah, there's a number of pieces of that puzzle, if you will, that go into this piece. And we also have learned, Paul, over the last year that there are certain things we want to do to connect across the industry better to logistics, and if we, but we're not ready, even inside the company. So often, we're actually doing some of what we call just the basic blocking and tackling of solutions just to be able to get us to those connections we're looking for.

[Paul] Oh, it's football season, we have to use those terms. I love it. But does your location in Indiana has that mattered to you, and who you been working with?

[Allan] It does matter to us. You know, we've been drawing talent with respect to our innovation fellows from all over the country. And so and we do that, where most of the time, they're working at a distance, so their location hasn't mattered to us. And that's been helpful to be able to draw talent into what we're doing. But where it has mattered the most were in the heartland, we're in the place where food and agriculture matters the most. And, and, of course, it matters in California. And we work there as well. When when when when the opportunities are right, and it works. And, you know, agriculture works in Arizona, and it works in Texas, it works in Florida, it works out in places all around the Midwest. But, you know, we're in the heart of where the heartland of agriculture is. And I think that's mattered a lot to us, it's mattered a lot to the engaging the industry in this innovation process. So I think your location matters. But luckily, we found a way to put together a system where it doesn't necessarily matter for talent, we get that talent from wherever we need it.

[Paul] What does location matter to you at DIAL?

[Allan]  You know, location matters to us with respect to making sure we're focused on issues that are mattered to agriculture. And that's great about us being in the Midwest. That's where the heart of agriculture is. One of the things that we've noticed, though, is that we're really sourcing talent from all over. And that's a really important piece too. You want to bring talent to the things that we're that we worry about food and agriculture and drawing them in from all around the country, is something that we've been really had a great opportunity to do. So focus on the impact that we want to have, you know, Purdue University is a land grant university in the Midwest and want to have impacts here in the US, in the Midwest of the US. But also, the other thing that I think is important for us to keep in mind, Paul, is that Purdue University, while it's located here, in the Midwest, it's a global impact university. We put people on the moon. So we want to have impact all around the world. And we're trying to do that from the central location of where the heart of food and agriculture is. So location matters to us. But impact is meant to be broad.

[Paul] People eat everywhere. It's not just an American thing, even though it looks like it might be sometimes with me, Alan, I have AI written down as the one of the first things to talk about, where is AI with you? What does it mean to you? And to those coming to you with ideas?

[Allan] Well, AI, while we just don't have enough time, Paul, so let me see if I can keep this as short for you as possible. AI is, let me do it this way. AI is an enabling tool that may or may not be the right tool to use to get the job done. What matters to us, first and foremost is what's the job we're trying to get done in the food and ag space that we need to have a digital solution for. And then we look in our toolkit and say, what is the tool that might matter? It might be AI, that's certainly a place where we think we have opportunities to work on making things more efficient and effective for those trying to get jobs done in food and agriculture, right. So so AI might turn out to be for example, very useful to agronomists working in ag retail who need ways to become more efficient and effective at utilizing the data and information that they have available to them for from variety of different sources to help them get those things compiled to be ahead of the producer ahead of the maladies that may be taking place in the cropping system, for example, AI might be a tool that helps us with those sorts of things. I see that as a big possibility for us as we move forward.

[Paul] So is AI a tool? Or is it the driver here?

[Allan] No, it's a tool. Yeah, I see it. I see it only as a tool is only going to be as effective as the person using the tool, right? It's a picker, a shovel. That's the way we think about things. How can we bring the picks and shovels to address the jobs that need to be done and from that Agriculture AI is just one of those picks or shovels, it's the buzzword. It's the thing everybody worries about these days. And of course, you know, our startup companies are in the venture capital market. And venture capital is all excited about AI. So anytime we might have a solution that could bring that tool that's going to be a benefit, of course, to our companies in that funding market. But if it's not the right tool for the job, we're going to use the tool that is,

[Paul] well, I'm gonna guess then that when things become buzzwords, you have to do a little bit of sales back on an issue and say, yeah, yeah, that's that's a good idea. But that's not the root of things. Are you having to have that discussion a lot?

[Allan] Yes, I mean, unfortunately, we have to have a lot of conversation, particularly in the funding market, about the nature of Food and Agriculture, the nature of this business, the fact that we are such a physical oriented business, that then the types of tools we might need or want to use in digital may or may not be the same things that are the digital tools that are as highly effective in a more digital space, like finance, for example. Right. And so we have to do some education around that some explaining around what we're doing in our markets. At the same time, Paul, were responsible also for saying, let's be open minded. But the argument that well, food and agriculture is different. It's just a poor argument, what we need to say, ‘Now, wait a minute, maybe we're there are some nuances or some things that are different about our industry,’ we should look at the tools that are being used in these other industries and say, how could we use those tools in our industry.

[Paul] Go back to that ‘we are different.’ What, they don't matter? Is that what you're being told? I'm not following you there.

[Allan]  That there are certain tools, but I'm what I'm talking about there is, you know, we have a tendency in agriculture to say, well, we can't really use the tools of modern technologies as well in agriculture, because we're different. And you know, are we different? Sure, there are certain elements about agriculture, food and agriculture that make us unique seasonality, is really, really such a big deal in our industry, it is in some other industries, but not not necessarily like it is for us. And then the other thing is, all other industries face uncontrollable factors, but maybe not so many uncontrollable factors like we do in food and agriculture. And then fourth thing is we're just physical, everything we do is physical and digitizing what we do physically isn't likely to happen, as it might in some other industry. So those are nuances that make us different, but it doesn't necessarily mean that tools that are used in the finance world would maybe be applicable here. We just need to think creatively and be open minded to how might we use those tools.

[Paul]  It's like those in ag, selling agriculture to anyone else saying, no, no, we're not. Yes, we have rural when we're in rural areas, doesn't mean we're backwater. And behind. Now, we are still using all that's what I was wondering if that's what you were meaning. And that is sounds like a little bit of you're trying to have to overcome and tell ag, tell ag's story to say, no, no, no, we are in that same discussion as everybody else. That's correct. Okay. All right. Just wanted to make sure. It's like, hey, we were doing some serious stuff. Just look inside. I mean, I look at I'm right, I have things written down here of all these things that automation has done and made better. And that's no different than every other product that's out on the market right now. Do you find that that's encouraging then for your work?

[Allan]  I think it's very encouraging to me that one, you know, if it's the right spaces, agriculture leads in technology adoption, as long as that technology is about getting a job done, better, faster, cheaper, more conveniently, more environmentally friendly. If it does, if the tool helps do that. We're really good at adopting technology. The other thing this industry is really good at is not adopting technology for technology's sake. Right? We're really good at that. And so that's where we have to find a balancing act, maybe the markets, the venture capital markets, or the or the consumer markets want to see us adopt a technology and food and agriculture because it's the latest buzz of a tool. But if it's not helping us get a job done that helps feed, clothe fueled world, then that tool is not one we need in this industry. And that's the interesting place where we get to kind of help shape that at DIAL.

[Paul] So you can help, I guess, shake out the chaff if we want to use a harvest term. Like that's not important. This is where the focus needs to be. That's what you're saying DIAL is helping do.

[Allan] Yeah. And it's our industry contacts that do that for us, right? Not just DIAL we bring together the industry and the industry is the one saying this is what's important. Let's solve this problem. That's not important right now. Let's focus on this.

[Paul]  Alright, let's talk about industry for just a moment when someone has an idea. You know, in corporate America, you always hear about that. Well my boss never wants to hear my idea, because it's not his or her idea. How are these companies coming now? Where they're like, no, no, we welcome all ideas, because we don't know yet what's going to totally work.

[Allan]  Yeah, we find this to be this one of the exciting things about DIAL and working with the industry is how I think the pace of change in the world, not just in our industry, Paul, but all around the world, I think the pace of change is such that it within our industry, people are looking up, and they're saying, hey, things are moving so fast around us, we got to be open minded to all the things, all the possibilities that are out there, thank goodness, we're working with somebody like Dial who's constantly looking at these things, and helping us think more about what is the future of this industry headed? Where are the technologies that we need to be thinking about adopting and how is it going to make it easier for us to do the job of feeding clothing and fueling the world?

[Paul]  Yeah, I, love reading about the innovations and I when I see these releases come through, and I just think there's opportunity. It's not, it's that old sales pitch, right? Oh, no. Well, how can you say no to opportunity? It's what's been the best, I guess, success story that looked like it was a hurdle that an opportunity arose, in your eyes?

[Allan] Well, let me give you an example. Okay. So Oaken is our latest one of our latest companies that we just started, I felt certain that and I still feel this way strongly that agriculture production, agriculture has a real opportunity in data. And we talk about that until we're blue in the face these days, it seems like except that, what I've noticed is that we have lots and lots of data on the farm, but we can't seem to get it aggregated in a way that becomes useful enough for us to be able to do something with it opens jobs, that's what their current, that's what they're really focused on, how can I work with the producer to help them gather all the data and information that they need. And in this case, Oaken is really focused on, 'Let's gather that data and information for you so that you can share it with your landowners,' because as you know, particularly in the Midwest, and rural crop, agriculture, 65% of the land is rented. And so for a farm operator to really be successful, they have to manage those relationships with landowners to continue to have access to that land asset, open focused on this activity. And I tell you this, because people told me at first, when we were working on this idea, it’ll never work out. You'll never, there's too many farms are too fragmented, and they don't want to adopt technology. And I kept and I kept telling them, I don't think this is true. I think that farmers fully understand when the data is useful to them in terms of being able to move their business forward, they're going to want to work with us to do that. And the landowner is a critical place where that matters to them, right. So far, a lot of it's been about we’ll gather all the data, so you can share it with a company downstream or upstream boom, will they benefit from the data. We're focused on my 'wait a minute, let's put the data together in a way that allows you to benefit.' And that took us awhile, Paul, we didn't get to open the first time through our process. It took us a couple of times through it before we really got to the right positioning, and the market began to understand what it is that we were trying to do. And since then, it’s taken off like a rocket ship. It's really doing great.

[Paul] But Allan, you talk about the upstream and the downstream. That's where the big argument has been with these companies. It's about the 'He who controls the data controls everything.' So how were you able to bridge that gap? That sounds like you should be trumpeting that with even louder megaphones?

[Allan]  Well, again, I think the key to that was to focus on the farmer, in this case, so much of the data we need in the food supply chain is created at the farm level. So focus, the focus has been on the farmer, but our focus has been on how do you benefit the most from this data so that you want to put it together. So you want to get it into what we call a data asset. How do we create data, because farmers have data but it's just a scattered mess of data, usually across the farm. How do you get that put together? The focus was on who is the one creating that data and what's the value for them. And you know, our view is the thing that resonates the most with the farmer is okay, I need to communicate with my landowners is going to help me do that in a more effective way. That was the key.

[Paul] Well, and I think of relationships with say the people behind me in this farm picture. I know that there is one of these tracts of land going up for sale almost by the time this podcast runs, is up for sale. So there's going to be a new landowner or someone that's getting presented that information, our dashboards, I think of my retirement or my finance, I see dashboards is that what open and is trying to put together so that landowner can be presented information by the farmer?

[Allan] Yes, dashboards for the farmer help. Dashboards for the farmer to help them manage those landowner relationships. You know, some farms may have 50 to 150 landowners. They're trying to manage all these different relationships. And that's a lot of work to have to manage. And right now, they mostly end up having to communicate with them blanketly here's what I'm doing on my farm instead of about what your individual farm we’re doing for them as allowing them the opportunity to use the dashboards of who you're communicating with. When was the last time you communicated with them? What did you communicate with them? What is it that that landowner cares about? Do they care about how well you mow the ditches and what the yields are? Or they care about ESG metrics and soil health, okay, what that farmer cares about this land or cares about this, let's communicate with them with that data, they this plant or cares about this, let's communicate with them around these pieces. Right? That's exactly what we're trying to do is so that they can really tailor the message to their landowner in terms of the value they're creating for that individual landowner. And then on the landowner side, hey, my opportunity now is to really understand what's happening on my land the way I want it, the way I want to understand what's happening, not just the cheque that's being transferred back and forth. 

[Paul] Well, and I think of one of our market analysts, the very first conversation I had with him a couple of years ago, before he came on the show was, I want to make sure I can relate to my producer, what their cost of production is for each bushel, because, and I think how this translates to what you're saying, Allan, is that when the producer farmer can tell the landowner when the landowner says I want to raise rent, and you'd be like, okay, well, here's where my expenses have been. Here's where my opportunity to gain some of that back. So again, it's an extension, listening to you, I think of that understanding the information and data and present it in a way that's beneficial to many people.

[Allan] Right. Absolutely, Paul, and whether it's about economics, because some landowners care about that, and others know, or it's around how well you take care of my piece of property. What have you done to improve my soil health? Yeah, these are things that might allow that farmer in that case to take the conversation beyond what's the what's the rent value going to be?

[Paul]  Let's get into the ecology of land. How were any companies that you're working with soil health, or understanding, wastewater discharge, or fertilizer overuse? Do you have any companies in the hopper with that?

[Allan]  What we're doing, we don't have any companies right now we're working on some concepts. In fact, I'm leaving right after this, Paul, headed down to Indianapolis for our next industry workshop, 65 people in our industry workshop, the next two days, working on the next 10 possible problems that we've identified until helping us figure out which ones of those are most important. Where we're spending our time right now, in that space is around measurement, verification and reporting. Because that's where the challenge is going to be with respect to whether we're talking about carbon credits, or we're talking about water quality, we're talking about fertility runoff, or we're talking about soil health, generally regenerative agriculture, these are all sort of features and benefits that come along with the products of corn or soybeans or whatever else you're producing, that they are ultimately those things have to be verified and reported on. And so you got to measure them, you got to report on them, you got to verify MRV. That's the way we think about that. So we're working on ideas where maybe there's companies that can do that can really create opportunities in that measurement verification reportability, where mostly right now, verification is third party verification, I'm not sure we'll get rid of that. But it's really expensive. Are there? Are there technologies? Are there ways in which we can do this that can lower the cost of verification, because I don't think we're gonna get away from that. It's gonna be a part of the sort of new metrics in sustainability ESG regenerative agriculture, that's going to be a part of this process. So that's kind of the space we've been working on here lately.

[Paul] I think it goes back to what you were just talking about a little bit, because those terms and subjects are important to legislatures, in rural America, and all of America have understanding of, well, what do we need to do to help a producer or limit the producer or something like that? And it goes back to that data and being able to understand what it is that you're talking about and presenting. So I know that's not a target of, well, I'm making talking points for legislators but that's in media for that standpoint, doing interviews like this, Allan, are, I think important, so I always appreciate your time.

[Allan] Yeah, Paul, I agree with you. It's another concept we're actually working on right now. is thinking about is there a business opportunity and and and problem to be solved to tell the farmer story better to the right audiences and And we're looking into that, how do we do that better we gave, it's amazing this time as we went around and talked to industry early on, in this cycle, how often the story was, we're trying to figure out how to tell our story better. Tell our farmer story better tell let people know more about what it is that we're doing here. And that's one of the spaces that we're actually going to be talking about over the next few days. And, of course, data is a big part of that. But But But, Paul, it's also storytelling, right? And it needs to be factual storytelling, which is why the measurement or verification reporting becomes an important part of that. I'm going to tell a story, we got to make sure we can back that story up with the facts as well. But yeah, so telling these stories is critically important for us.

[Paul] Going back to the very first thing we talked about, I couldn't figure out which joke I wanted to comment with. But you could put that into AI into the Chat GPT and say, 'tell agriculture's story in this such way and see what that's a tool... that's another whole thing. But that's what the writers strike is about, so Allan is the Chat GPT doing the work of humans. All right, Allan, as we close up, what is, what's the next year going to look like? What do you mean, you're talking about the industry workshop you've got going on here in the next couple of days, you're, you're always having meetings, in a year from now, what are we going to be talking about?

[Allan] Well, first of all, I hope, I hope and I believe we're going to be talking about the fact that our first three companies Croft, Oaken and Gripp are on to bigger and better things. They've gone past their seed rounds of funding, they've got real customers, which we do already, by the way, already have customers, but we've really blown up the number of customers we've had, and, and why not, not from my perspective, not because these companies becoming financially successful, but because if they're growing and they are successful, it's because we're solving a problem in the industry. That's what these companies are supposed to be about. They're about helping the industry move forward in a digital space. So I hope one year from now, and I believe one year from now, that's one of the things we're gonna be talking about is man, those first companies that dial started, the first ones they started, they weren't the first ones that started well, they didn't really work out, they're still working on this normal, the very first ones we started, or because the industry told us to. And look, we're solving these problems, and they want us to be here. That's the first thing we're going to be talking about. The second thing we're going to be talking about is that Dial's flywheel just keeps turning faster and faster. And every six months, there's another solution coming. There's another solution coming there's another, these are investable, growing impactful companies and dial in the industry in a partnership are continually creating new solutions to help this industry move forward and digital. That's what we're going to be doing a year from now. You're going to be talking to me again about what like you're still busy, and you bet we are trying to solve these problems with the industry. 

[Paul] And I'm going to have an arm full of press releases to go through I always enjoy seeing what Dial sends me, I'm always curious, I'm like, Oh, now that's a great idea. I'm always fascinated by the person with the idea. I've always asked like, how do you become an idea person? I mean, is it someone who just stares out the window all day? Or? What? How do we prompt that because to me, I think everybody can come up with ideas, we just have to kind of figure out how we channel them.

[Allan] Well, just quick, cool story on that poll. Tracy Latimeyer is CEO of Gripp, unbelievable. So we're trying to digitize the repair and maintenance of ag and food equipment all across the industry digitize that it's not very, it's not very digitized, right now repair and maintenance is sort of run to failure, and then see if you find some way to quickly get it fixed. Well, the problem with this is oh, of course, machinery is different all across the industry that types of people working on it are different your operators working on these things aren't necessarily digitally capable, but they're very mechanically capable, you got to get them involved in this process. He and his staff came up with the idea of if we'll take a magnet or a sticker, this is very simple concept. But we've got a QR code on it, we're gonna put it onto pieces of machinery that the company wants to follow. And it's just a QR code and the operator comes up to work on a piece of machinery, they just, they just highlight it with the phone. And it immediately pulls up a very simple form for them to fill out whatever information they need to with respect to what they're doing. And it's creating this is the brilliance of the smart people like Tracy, it's linked in for a piece of machinery. It's literally a LinkedIn profile for that piece of machinery. So an operator comes up to scans on it. It's got videos from what happened to it. The last time the machine was worked on what the maintenance was or what the issue was, that was where everything about that piece of machinery has its own LinkedIn profile. And it's a simple thing of magnet that goes on are a sticker that goes on a piece of machinery with a QR code so that the operator can quickly easily and efficiently put the information in, believe it or not, that's as simple, Paul, as you can make an a solution be and it's just now coming and Gripp's bringing it that's pretty amazing.

[Paul] So really, the robots are real because the machines are talking to our phones then that's would you say, that's really what it is like? Yes, I have had a history. It's Carfax for the for the combine. 

[Allan] That's exactly what we're doing. 

[Paul]  Allan Gray, great to see you. Great to chat with you. Thank you so much for making time. 

Contact: Paul.Yeager@IowaPBS.org