Cotton industry keeps moving towards sustainability with new member of Trust Protocol

Hi everyone, I'm Paul Yeager. This is the M to M Show podcast, a production of Iowa PBS in the Market to Market TV show. Remember, I have cotton on the brain, but not cotton behind me, corn and beans, of course. But it's always good to have a discussion about another product that we cover on Market to Market and that would be cotton. We're going to have a return guest employer. That's the Cotton Trust Protocol, the US Trust Cotton Protocol based in Tennessee, out of the National Cotton Growers office. Today, we're going to talk with Tillman White, he's the operations manager there, find out what that job is like where he grew up, where he went to school, Mississippi State, I'm sorry. He humored me when I started talking football. He admitted, not necessarily the biggest fan of football, which is fine, because he's busy working, trying to enroll people into the US Cotton Trust Protocol. We'll go over again what that is and talk about the sustainability, also a new member of the group and what that means for the Protocol growing numbers as they try to grow exports and places to sell the end product. That's what it's all about. In the end, isn't it? New episodes of this podcast come out each and every Tuesday. You can like and subscribe. Wherever you get your podcast. You can watch it in video form or listen to it. We prefer either, and we love hearing from you. Thank you. Now, let's talk cotton. Telling you have to understand when I'm in Big 10 country where I'm sitting or Big 12 country, football Saturdays are different than what they are where you're at. Is that accurate? Is the South in the Southeastern Conference land? Is that serious football land?

[Tillman White]  Yeah, so I would definitely say Saturdays during the fall are different than the rest of the year.

[Yeager] And it's one of those where you think, Oh, it can't be that different. But once you go and see and tailgate and watch the game, it's night and day. That's right. Yep. You grew up in Tennessee. Well, tell me about your upbringing.

[White] Right. So I grew up in West Tennessee in a rural town, Somerville, Tennessee, which is probably an hour east of Memphis, and grew up with a little agriculture background. My dad still has a small cow calf operation, but all around us was row crop and in cow cows as well, and grew up there and then decided to go to Mississippi State and continue my education in agriculture. Actually, I did my undergrad in animal Dairy Sciences at Mississippi State and then continued with my grad program with agriculture economics, so kind of continued in agriculture, through school as well.

[Yeager] One thing that the current Secretary of Agriculture said after his first eight year term, he said he didn't under standard fully appreciate the competitiveness between schools to be the best in agriculture. He said Auburn and Mississippi State and Texas A&M, they wanted to win in agriculture. They wanted to win and everything was Mississippi State that way. Do you feel they wanted to win in agriculture?

[White] I think they did. You could tell there's definitely some competition. Especially when you start looking in when I was going through and finished up undergrad, I was looking at graduate programs, those schools that you just listed were at the top of the list and some even farther, say Kansas State, they're obviously a big competitor Oklahoma State. So I think there is some competitiveness against those schools, especially in the agriculture sector, because there's it's so small, but makes it, I guess, makes the program even better and more competitive. So it definitely is that kind of aspect.

[Yeager] And you have come back to Tennessee and have you come back to the farm on a part-time or ad hoc basis or full time as well?

[White] I'm full time here with the Trust Protocol and with the National Cotton Council but I do still help with my dad in his business and then the cow calf operation whenever I can.

[Yeager] And when you said row crops were around you what was cotton around you growing up? 

[White] Cotton was around me. I just was out of town this weekend and coming back home all the way to our house which is pretty much in the middle of nowhere was cotton. So we definitely have cotton around this corn and soybeans this year for sure.

[Yeager] What did you know about cotton as a young man?

[White] So funny enough, now being in the industry for two years for lacking, I knew very little at the time, I thought wow, it's just, you know, there's cotton, there's a gin and then there's products in the store. But learning there's so many different moving parts in the cotton industry. So I felt like I knew very little, besides, you know what I could see on a day to day basis?

[Yeager] Did you enjoy working with the crop? Or would you like nah, corn, corn is easier? Corn is easier or cattle are easier? Or? Or did you enjoy the challenge of cotton?

[White] I think I enjoyed the challenge. Specifically enjoyed learning about the different segments of the industry, I didn't know there were all these different segments. And, you know, they all work together for one goal. And that's to promote US cotton. So it was very interesting and, and how they work together. And, you know, it was just, I've thoroughly enjoyed that part to say.

[Yeager] And you're at, you said, you're at the National Cotton Council office, and the Trust Protocol has, I guess, I guess it resides inside there, how do you? How do you describe that relationship between the two?

[White] Um, well, the US Cotton Protocol was launched back in 2020, under the umbrella of the National Cotton Council. Our previous president of the Trust Protocol was Gary Adams, who was our CEO of the National Cotton Council. And so started here under the council. So that's kind of the, I guess you would say home base, and some of the staff with the Trust Protocol, as we've grown, has been here in the council office. So it started here.

[Yeager] So it's easy to have conversations with each other in the hall about one thing or another, are easier to schedule meetings, I guess, in the virtual world, we can schedule meetings pretty easily, but it's hard to replace those hallway conversations.

[White] That's right. For sure, I think having an in house, especially at the council, I mean, with me being new to the cotton industry, I could go down the hall, to our Vice President of General Services of a grower segment. So all the different segments, I could just go and, you know, knock on the door and talk to the expert. So that was really helpful for me. And I think it's a good place for the Protocol, especially right now, as we're growing and scaling.

[Yeager] Your title is Operations Manager. So tell me what that means in this relationship or this setup?

[White] So I work with mainly the supply side. So why I cover growers, gins merchants, cooperatives, that entire segment, segments of the industry, and specifically our work with our platform. So the US Cotton Protocol platform where all those different members enroll all our work with all their different, you know, parts or how they participate in the platform and work together to, you know, get fiber onto the platform, and then also helping a little bit familiar manufacturer members of sourcing fiber to the program. So I work with all different aspects, grower enrollment, a lot of different things, but mainly the supply side.

[Yeager] It's one thing to have an agricultural background, but then to get specific to a commodity, did you feel that your I don't want to say lack of experience, but less than less experience allows you to look at the industry with a brand new set of eyes and a different perspective to kind of ask questions of, wait a minute, why are we doing that? Or? Oh, that's a really good idea. Did it provide you with a different perspective?

[White] I think it did. You know, coming in here, coming in here, not really knowing much about cotton when I learned really quick. And I still continue to be learning. I've been here two years, but I never come to the office, you know, as if I know something, you know, I always lean on the industry leaders who have been here for 20-30 plus years and coming in not knowing much, I think was very helpful for me, because I could just lean on those that have already paved the way and you know, these experts that have been here for years. So I think it was good for me.

[Yeager] Since the Protocol started to now, what's been, what was the mission at the beginning to compare to what's the mission now.

[White] So I think our mission still remains the same as far as ensuring that US cotton remains a leading producer of cotton and a number one choice for customers for brands and retailers out there and also for the Trust Protocol to tell the story of the US grower. So what our producers are doing at the farm level, what type of environmental footprint do they have? And also part of the mission as it evolves is offering the transparency throughout the supply chain for other men. members in the cotton industry. So I think we've, you know, remained the same, ensuring us remains a leader and, and, you know, telling the story of the US producer as well.

[Yeager] Sustainability at the core of everything that you do, do you find that the goings for sustainability are still, are the headwinds strong, are they headwinds? Or are they tailwinds?

[White] I would say they're very strong, and they're continually evolving. There's always new terminology popping up in the sustainability space. And I think what the Trust Protocol can do is be a good base of information and, and, you know, a trusted partner for other ministry leaders or ministry segments to lean on as far as that type of information and what's going on in the sustainability space. But I would say it's continually evolving, the demand is still there. We have brands and retailers, NGO's, and consumers still wanting to know what's going into that product, how it's being sourced and what kind of impact it has on the environment. And I think that's just going to continue to increase. And I think it's a good space for us to be in right now for the Trust Protocol.

[Yeager] Do you get pushback on that just a bunch of greenwashing?

[White] We get pushback, I would say where I work, especially with the grower side, because it depends where they're hearing it from, there can be some noise out in the world as far as you know, what sustainability actually means, which we get that question a lot. But I think just providing them with the best possible information at the time, and showing them that it's not just talk, we're seeing, you know, brands and retailers, which at the end of the day are their customers or, you know, creating these lists, creating these goals for their companies that they're only going to source fiber that comes from programs like the Trust Protocol, so showing them that they're, you know, vested interest for program like this is serious. So I think it's just, it's just providing them with the right information when you can.

[Yeager] Because dealing out there in the world. People can talk, they can get over the end gate, they can text amongst each other. So do you feel like a victory when you find a new producer that maybe hadn't been enrolled, that you were able to convince it and talk about the benefits of enrolling?

[White] I would say so, it's always good to, to talk to a producer who hasn't heard about the program, which, you know, at the end of the day, sometimes we're thinking, gosh, we're doing so, so much and working so hard to get that message out there. But still, it's good to, you know, see a new face and provide them with all the information and what we're doing here, what we're trying to do for them and their community, they’re the cotton industry for the US growers. So it's always good to see that.

[Yeager] Do you find that the initial launch met expectations? I mean, is there like a, you know, in sales, I was thinking compared to sales? I mean, do you have lines of growth, where you're like, Yeah, we're on track, or, Oh, we've got to work harder here or man, we're way ahead of the game.

[White] I would say at first and I came to the Trust Protocol a year after the launch, but when I started, there was a little bit of a slow uptake. A lot of it's just getting the message out there and, and, you know, showing them what we all do. But the second year I was here we doubled our enrollment with our producers. You know, our main manufacturer members or brands that slowly really taken off especially our manufacturers, we have a lot of members over 1,800 Mill manufacturers and brands or retailers that are members of the Trust Protocol and and we've slowly seen my in the growers pick up getting gins engaged, which is really important, because of course the growers work very closely with their gins, and having that trust with their customers is really important. So we've seen some definite pick up and now even seen in the marketplace, which is really great.

[Yeager] You just had a new enrollment here. I believe it's Kiabi and it's European. What does, tell me about that deal? I guess it's not a deal, but just tell me about Kiabi what happened here?

[White] So yes, we just had Kiabi come to the table and join us as a US Cotton Trust Protocol member, they're a French fashion brand. And they have over 579 shops across 25 different countries. And I think it's just really important for another brand coming to the table to show you know, again, the members I work with that there is demand for this program. They're wanting to get engaged and they have those goals to source a sustainable product. And it's just really exciting seeing these brands come on, come to the table and begin to work with us and source the fiber through this program.

[Yeager] Do you find that there's been less pushback globally than there was domestically for expanding the protocol?

[White] Um, I would say there was less pushback. Again, it all depends on what segment you're talking to, you know, some might have more pushback than others, depending on their role in a program like this, but I think there's been good acceptance overall. foreign and domestic, I would say, of the program that are very been very supportive of how we've put this program together, we've taken it slow, making sure we're trying to answer all the all the concerns and needs of every single member, and not just singling one out and helping them we're trying to cover every segment. And so I think we've overall had good acceptance from foreign and domestic participants.

[Yeager]  Because it seems to me the story, European, from the Europeans, as they are more open to sustainability and value, the were only going to purchase things. They're much stronger to that belief than maybe they are domestically. And you seem to be confirming that.

[White] Yes, I would say so. I mean, whenever we're looking at different things in the sustainability atmosphere and legislation, especially we're looking at the EU, because they're always a few steps ahead of the US of what they're trying to do. And as the trust protocol, we always want to get out in front of that, and provide all that information needed for our members here domestically. Right now, definitely.

[Yeager] Right now, I understand we're getting to the end of enrollment period. Is that right too?

[White] Well, we just closed our 2023 enrollment last month, and had good numbers there, especially as we adjusted our timeline this year. But we did just close our enrollment for 2023. And we will be opening our next enrollment for 2024 January one. So we have a few months to get ready for our next enrollment. So we're excited for that.

[Yeager]  Alright, I'm a grower, granted, that's not cotton behind me in that picture, but I'm somebody in a region that might not have I'm on the fence, pitch me why I need to enroll.

[White] So, for one, I think it'd be important to enroll in the US Cotton Trust Protocol to ensure market access. Because since this program started, all of these brands and retailers we've had conversations with and met with created these preferred fiber lists, and, again, made these statements and goals but 2025, 2030, they're only going to source fiber that comes off of these lists. And until the protocol, we're not on some of these brands’ lists. So I would say it's important for market access. And then also, I think it's important because we have a new initiative within the trust protocol called the climate smart cotton program. It was a grant that the US Cotton Trust Protocol received funding this past year with the USDA and producers can participate with different levels and receive financial and technical support for participating in the protocol. So there is a financial incentive there as well. But really, I think it's the market access and, and also, again, we provide feedback based on their operation, we give them an idea of their environmental footprint and show, you know, different techniques and practices that they could use to enhance their operation. So I think all those three different things are very important for him.

[Yeager] Like many crops grown in the United States, it's not just a domestic end user, it's a global user prime clients, so therefore being able to be as competitive with your, I guess your competition. This is just another way to, to not push someone away from buying your product, you're giving them a reason to not eliminate you, I guess if I may use a couple of double negatives there.

[White] Yeah. And, and to your point, I mean, our competitors globally there you can think they're trying to do the same thing. I mean, they're trying to increase their production, their outreach, and you know, gain that market access. So we're just trying to continue to do that here in the US and offer a program that is acceptable from you know, our domestic members all the way from our foreign as well. So that's very important because you know, you can bet they're doing the same thing, and are working to try to replicate something.

[Yeager] Do you find that people are more willing to pick up the phone when the price of cotton is higher or lower,

[White] For sure if it was higher. And that is something that it just varies year to year, of course, there's going to be drops in prices. And we'll see acreages pickup and different commodities. But it's important for us to provide that constant messaging to our cotton growers and provide that opportunity for them as well, even if the prices are, are lower some years.

[Yeager] Because to me, if it's lower you’re going, well, I need some help in finding a way to maybe sell my product, but then it's also an expense, right?

[White] That's right. That's right. So I think with this program, you're right, there could be a lower price. And of course, inputs are not going down, it seems like so providing them that extra market opportunity or marketability of their fiber is just another opportunity for them.

[Yeager] Today on your to-do list after this interview is done, what's the top priority you have in your job?

[White] So it varies day to day, I feel like I come into the office with a plan and the plan just goes away as soon as the phone starts ringing and the emails start coming in. But you know, as harvest is going on, am I constantly checking fiber, those bales in inventory coming through our system making sure they're getting uploaded by gins or our marketers. And then also, we're seeing a pickup of shipments of trucks, protocol, cotton go into our mill manufacturer members. So I'm always observing that and helping any of our members if they need help in that process. So it's constantly evolving throughout the day. 

[Yeager] Sp harvest is one of the busier times for you?

[White] Um, I would say it's actually not the busier time. Our busy time is during our enrollment period, especially for me, part of my job is also to help dentists. So if they get stuck or need help with anything, my number is on there. And I'm the first person they call. So we just closed our enrollment, as I mentioned a month ago. So it's gotten a little bit quieter, which is nice, you know, I catch up on other things, but that's their busy time, of course, it's harvest. So we try to stay off the phone as much as possible, because we know they're swamped.

[Yeager] You don't want to be one of those memes on accident where they show up of ‘here's the seed salesman,’ here's this chemical salesman all kind of lurking in and showing up. You don't want to be that guy.

[White] Right. And we've and I've learned that in the past when I started, if you made phone calls during the year, when you call them and you can hear them on the picker, you just say well, I'm sorry, you know, have a good day. They're very busy. So you want to avoid that time period.

[Yeager] Do you the cotton industry, you talked about logging in to see what the bale is doing. That was traceability that's been in for a number of years on a bale that can tell where something is. Do you think other that's helped cotton be able to justify yes or not justify verify where something has been grown, or how it's been grown to offer its sale or to help in an enrollment or to be in the Protocol?

[White] Um, I think it's really increased its value in the last few years. You know, historically US Cotton has had the, the permanent ball identification number, which are the PBI's assigned to every single bale which has been very great for the US cotton industry as a whole. But in the last few years with issues at the borders with CBP Customs Border Patrol, flagging products coming in, this has really started to ramp up and brands are not only looking at what's happening on the farm level as far as their fiber, but how's it moved throughout the supply chain, and the supply chain is very complex. Of course, there's a lot of different members, member members, you know, touching that fiber as it goes before it gets to a final product. So that's really, really started to increase and, and we're trying to fine tune and tweak and make sure that we provide that roadmap for our end users that they know where their fiber is being sourced, you know what companies are handling it. So that's really started to gain some speed in the last few years.

[Yeager]  When you talk about gins I think of them like a processor like a soy processor or you know, kind of that first level off the farm. Are you finding that there were crystal ball five years, are we going to have more gins?

[White] I would say for sure have more chains that are members or even in this past year, we've had a big increase in our gins joining becoming members again, they can connect with their producers, they can help them with enrollment, they can help them upload their inventory. So, and also outside of just the gyms working we're working with other industry organizations such as ew er, which is the electronic warehouse receipts. So now, bales in our system get automatically flagged. So gins and marketers can see which bales with specific PBI numbers or protocol bales, so we're working with them and the gyms are starting to understand that process. And there's an automated process with it, which is, you know, always good to hear for the gins because less work is always good for them. But we're starting to see a lot of pickup and, you know, especially if their customers are wanting to be members of the protocol, then they also want their gyms to be involved, because it's going to make that relationship much even better. So we're starting to see a big pickup in the gins, which is exciting. 

[Yeager] I know we don't ever see full 99% or 100% anything, but once you get every grower and every processor and every gin enrolled, then what?

[White] Well, I don't know when that's going to be that would be a lot. But I would say what we could do is the protocol has continued to be a leader. As far as information, a trusted source for industry organizations have, you know, what's the next, you know, term sustainability or whatever that might come down the pipe pipeline? I think we could just be a trusted partner for them. Someone they could, you know, lean on and hopefully provide more opportunity for them.

[Yeager] Alright, Tillman. Dak Prescott had a pretty rough game last week, Mississippi State alum. Yep. Do you mention that he's from Mississippi State when he has a game like that? 

[White] I do. You know, I don't follow the NFL as much. But when he was at Mississippi State, it was. It was a great time. And he grew the campus like never before. So we still support him no matter what.

[Yeager] And then they'll put your statue next to his, right?

[White] Oh, no. Far away. No, no way.

[Yeager] All right, Tillman, I appreciate it. Good luck on the next enrollment period, which would be after the first of the year and hopefully then cattle are doing okay, there on the homeplace, too. My thanks to Tillman White. And thanks to you for watching, or listening or reading. If you have any feedback for me, hit me up at an email. PaulYeager@IowaPBS.org. We'll see you next time. Bye bye.