Food security crosses many departments - Cary Fowler

The Iowa Soybean Association is driven to deliver for Iowa’s 40,000 soybean farmers. We're proud to provide objective agronomic research, a helping hand with soil and water stewardship and timely industry news powered by the soybean checkoff. Learn more at iasoybeans.com.

 

Paul Yeager: Hello, everybody and welcome into the M to M Show podcast. I'm Paul Yeager we're on remote for this episode, just like we were last week talking about the Rockefeller Foundation. This week, we're going to get into the State Department. What's the State Department have to do with agriculture, you ask? Well, that's what we posed the question to Dr. Cary Fowler, he is a special envoy for global food security for the United States State Department. He's been to the World Food Prize. Before he was on a panel last year, he's on a panel this year. We are going to discuss the issue of food security. We'll also get into mapping of soils, not necessarily in precision agriculture in the United States, but globally. And what that can mean for food production as well as food security. This is an episode where we're going to get heavy into policy and just bigger ideas of thinking. We're looking for a moonshot. Let's see what we find out on this installment of the MTM Show podcast. What's your first Norman Borlaug memory? When did you first become aware of the guy that this is all based on?

 

Cary Fowler: Well, I was a member of the Board of Trustees of  CIMMYT the International Maize and Wheat Improvement Center. And that's where he did most of his work. And he was retired, if you could ever so Norm was retired, but still had an office there was still going to work every morning, we had breakfast every morning when I would go to board meetings because I get up early, he'd get up early. But I remember I wanted to somehow rope him into some project that I was doing. I needed his help. And I thought for a long time how I could convince him to do that. And I finally landed on the strategy. And I knocked on his door and he said come in and they said I carry and I said norm Do you want to fish or cut bait? And he just smiled and said fish. The part of the story that makes the funniest says I can't remember what happened after that. What I asked him.

[Yeager]  You weren't sure what you're even asking him for that day? Oh, that's fantastic. 

[Fowler] I'm sure I was asking him for something. But I can't remember it now. But I remember his reaction. And it was so typical Norm justice just to be a go getter, jump right in and be engaged. He was a person of limited patience. I mean, he wanted action.

[Yeager] which is hard when you're mixing government and private entities and around the world to have patience. Yeah. What from his inspiration do you think made this event what it is?

[Fowler] Well, I think if you really look carefully at Norman Borlaug's life. At the surface, you might say, well, he's the person who bred short stature of weeds and much higher yielding and dealt with wheat, stem, rust, and various things like that. So you might think of him as a scientist. But really what he was, I think, at heart, in addition to the scientists part was he was an organizer and a doer, and he made it happen. So it's not enough, you know, just to breathe new variety, wheat and corn. If you want to have that spread all over the world and really be instrumental in food security, you got to go through all kinds of barriers and overcome all kinds of obstacles, political and administrative, and all that and that he was stubborn and persistent. And just at the end of the day, he was going to make it happen.

[Yeager] You've been to this event before. I remember listening to you on a panel last year in the rooms that are off to our side here. Why when this was put on your schedule, or did you ask to put this on your schedule that you felt it was important to be here and represent the State Department? 

[Fowler] This has to be on the schedule. This event is the most unique world food security event in the world. It's the only place where you can come every year and meet people from all walks of life within the agriculture space. So you got plant breeders and geneticists but an economist and nutritionist and everybody and they're all focused. Don't forget the farmer that's here. And the farmers are here from all over the world. So it's this wonderful mix, and you get the most interesting discussions. But I tell you that one of the things that I really love about it, the young people, and that was the one area by the way, where Norman Borlaug had a whole lot of patients. It was with young people. He was, I think, really inspiring to young people. He was inspired by them, and he would mentor them and encourage them to no end. And when I come to these meetings, I go away with a lot of energy from the young people. 

[Yeager] Normally it's the adult that has no patience for kids and patience for adults. So to have that flipped is fun. Help me understand though, State Department versus USDA and how you're both involved with food, right? But there's completely different lanes. What's the delineation?

[Fowler] Well, the USDA lane is very practical and pragmatic, but its domestic folk focused in the State Department is the diplomatic arm of government. So we're, we're quite interested as a USDA, but we're the diplomatic arm for the US government abroad. So we're, we're interested in food security? For a couple of reasons. One is obvious. It's the humanitarian side of our government, it's the face on the values that we have in this country. The other is a national security question. Without food security, you don't really have national security. There's a very tight correlation between food insecurity, and civil conflict, Civil War, these kinds of things. And this Arab Spring started right at a point when food prices rose very dramatically. It was in the El Nino year, by the way, food production went down, food prices shot up and people were hot and bothered.

[Yeager] I've always been told that we are only three or four meals skipped away from conflict. Is that something that's talked about at state?

[Fowler] Well, we're at the moment, we're seeing a world where we have fairly low grain stockpiles. This is an El Nino year that typically shaves a couple of percent off of production globally, but it's concentrated in certain areas. So we would expect to see and are seeing right now and drought in southern Africa and probably reduced production of grain and Australia, this is going to have an impact on food prices. But when you live hand to mouth, as many people do, and in southern Africa, this could shape up to be a humanitarian crisis as well.

[Yeager] You mentioned food security, give me that definition, does it change over time?

[Fowler] Well, the different organizations that work on this issue, like the Food and Agriculture Organization of the UN will have their definitions of it. But I think what we really are aiming for is that everyone has access to a good diet at all times of the year. And in this country, it's hard to really understand that in many parts of the world, food security is a seasonal matter. And the off-season is the lean and hungry part of the year. And what we're trying to do, I think, is to look beyond just the simple necessity for providing people with enough calories. Because calories alone are not not a definition of food security. Food security is also nutritional security. And it means trying to help countries become a little more self provisioning for those. For a broad range of crops and micro and macro nutrients, we also have to realize that food aid is not the same thing as food security. And I think in the world today, what we're seeing is that the gap between our ability to provide that food aid is growing. In terms of the need, and we really have to help countries do a better job of producing food.

[Yeager] Is it safe to say that food aid becomes political food security is not?

[Fowler] I don't I don't think so. i It's interesting to me. And it's important to me that this whole area is bipartisan. I've I've never seen, I don't know what the Republican versus Democratic position is on this issue, I think, in a fundamental way, all of us in America have certain values. And I think those are manifested in government policy. So this is I think, and I hope one of the areas that where there can be collaboration between the parties, and we don't have big fights,

[Yeager] I had a conversation with the Rockefeller Foundation about this issue. And it tells a tale. I told the story that I had heard about someone saying, going to the food bank of Iowa for assistance. Oh, those are just people who are lazy. And I was stopped, Raj stopped me and said no, it goes different. And he explained. What is it globally that it's looked upon when a country asks for help, or we see that there is a need for help that the United States could offer?

[Fowler] If you look at some of the countries in Africa, I'm focused on that, by the way, because that's where the greatest number of food insecure people are, and it's where the greatest need is. And I think in some ways, it's where the greatest potential is as well. Africa is going to be the most populated continent on Earth by the end of the century. So it's in our interest obviously in theirs that they become more food secure. When I look at some of those countries, you see some pretty systemic problems, such as poor soils. And it seems like a no brainer to me. But what I've been saying to people is, there's no such thing as food security, based on bad soil and unadapted crops.

[Yeager] You mentioned soil, and we were going to get into it, I guess we'll go now in this country, the farmer knows down to the foot where it's good, where it's not set the same idea when you talk about soil mapping, or what's your broad before we get down to that foot by foot?

[Fowler] Sure. Well, in this country, we have precision agriculture, right and and so you have combines and tractors that are GPS lengthen you and you know almost foot by foot, what's what's happening. In many developing countries, you don't know kilometer by kilometer. So if you've got a small family subsistence kind of farm, that might be two acres large, you don't know what kind of soil you have. And therefore you really don't have a good basis for planning for knowing which kind of crops you need on that land and what you can do with it long term. In Africa, you have some of the oldest, most weathered, frankly, most eroded soils. And then there really needs to be some, I guess, program, if you will, to kind of restore and recapitalize this soil. And it starts with information that starts with the governments knowing what soils they had. So they can engage in Rational land use planning and know where to focus production of a particular crop or not to grow anything at all, in the farmers needed for farm level management.

[Yeager] So if we as a farmer in that village, who always thought that this is the crop I'm supposed to plant, there might come out the soils testing might come back and say, really, we think you should plant this instead? Is that what you're meaning? 

[Fowler] Yeah, but you know, in a very broad sense of the word, in the old days in this country, we had a lot of extension agents, farmers can now get a lot of that information from their cell phone. And if you look at Africa, there are 160 5 million cell phone accounts. And farmers are doing even subsistence farming, doing their banking and doing all kinds of transactions with the cell phone. So one of the things I think helps a lot in Africa is taking that kind of macro soil information that you get from satellite mapping, and modeling it with local information about the soils and giving the farmers information and even recommendations about what they can do with their land most productively.

[Yeager] Because I think a lot of Americans might just say Oh Africa, third world, there's no technology, but you're telling me that is far from it?

[Fowler] It's a different world. So some of the things that we're promoting and, and and what gives me a lot of hope is that it's a different world in Africa. Now there's much more human capacity and otherwise, the political support is there. We have new technologies for breeding crops, for example. So I think there's reason to believe that we can make some transformative changes.

[Yeager] Are there certain countries where you're paying attention to or where mapping could benefit producers and food security the most?

[Fowler] Well, in terms of the soil work that we're trying to promote, I think much of Africa is behind the curve in terms of what they had. It's far, far less than what a farmer here would have. And I think farmers here would tell you, they need to know their soils to be good farmers.

[Yeager] Just like in Africa, this country, we have weather issues, we have climate issues, how does climate challenges, changes, alterations fit into some of your work in Africa?

[Fowler] Well, Africa is predicted to be one of the continents that will be hardest hit by changes in climate. This is again, you could say well, this is a political issue to talk about climate change. But when I talk with farmers, and even gardeners, we talk about bad weather and extreme weather. And by the way, how a farmer or gardener adapts to the weather is the same whether you believe in climate change or you don't believe in climate change. You still need to have good adapted crops for whatever the weather conditions are. I think that, you know, in Africa where we are seeing some really extreme weather events, and we're seeing some consistency to the droughts into the high heat as well. So if you're a foreigner and you're there and you say, Well, you know, I expect the upcoming season to be a normal season. What? What is normal? Are we talking about? Is there a new normal? And so again, I think largely through plant breeding efforts, we can help farmers find adapted varieties for those conditions.

[Yeager] You're from the government, you're here to help, right, I guess is the is the model. But where does the government have a lot of work? But where's the line between government and private foundations trying to do this work that you're talking about: who has to lead, who has to be along for the ride and do work to roll up their sleeves?

[Fowler] Well, I hope nobody's along for the ride. Private foundations have a really important role to play. They can be nimble and quick. We have processes in government to come to certain decisions or programs. But I one of the things that I found interesting coming into government I've been with the State Department a year and a half now is the open mindedness I think of people in government, private sector with whom we work very closely private philanthropies like the Gates Foundation, or Rockefeller Foundation, I think there's just a real openness. And it also spans the different disciplines and nutritionists in the plant breeders and the ag economist. And part of that is the fact that we're really in a global food crisis. We have more than 700 million people on Earth are food insecure. Now, an interesting thing is that, you know, we started talking about that because of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, that really was the spark that hit us last year. But since then, media attention, no offense has really gone down, while the number of food insecure people has gone up.

[Yeager] And that's the stat I've heard this week that has been talked about is the numbers have gone up. Why?

[Fowler] Yeah, well, because we haven't solved the underlying problems. When Russia invaded Ukraine, we became very well aware of how conflict has an impact on food security, and it's one of the major causes, think 60 or so percent of the people who are food insecure. They live in countries that are experiencing conflict. But there's climate, there are weather issues. COVID was a big hit from COVID. And then they're the kind of traditional problems, if you will, of lack of investment and low stock piles and things like this. We really had the perfect storm, we are in the middle of the perfect storm.

[Yeager] What calms the storm?

[Fowler] I think it's our I think it takes ourselves being calm, and thinking long term and very systematically and rationally about this. One of the things that we're doing at the State Department is promoting what we call the vision for adapted crops and soils, we've talked a little bit about soils. But if you look at Africa, the major staple crops in Africa are all imported crops, maize originated in Central America, Asian rice from Asia, bananas from Asia, wheat from the Near East. And if you look forward, those crops are having fairly stable yield increases every year. But those yield increases don't are not taking us to where we need to be to provide food security. So we're looking at some of the traditional and indigenous African crops where some of those are familiar to a lot of people: sorghum and millet and cassava and such. But a lot of them are crops that you've never heard of before. They have a huge amount of potential. But we've never the international communities are really invested in.

[Yeager] You mentioned the yield going up, but it's not. You're saying it's not keeping up with the population growth. That's right. And as we find new crops and new opportunities, do we, are we looking at the crops? I mean, in America, we always talk about, well, we'll go with what's most profitable. That's always what wins. But I guess it's their crops out there that can have I won't say moonshots. But the greatest impact, if we can just start growing these three things, the world will change.

[Fowler] Well, we have really looked at the whole range of indigenous crops in Africa, there are about 300 indigenous crops to find which are the ones that could provide the most or the best nutrition for people year round and for all kinds of people. But particularly I must say, for women and children, the stunting rate in, in Africa is of children under five is just horrendous. A quarter, sometimes a third of the children are, are stunted, and that means mentally and physically, that'll last the rest of their lives. So if you're, if you're going to be very rational about this and you want to make long term sustainable improvements, you're going to look at the crop Sit can provide me really good nutrition year round. That's what we're doing. And we think some of these crops, particularly in the vegetables, and the legumes, and nitrogen fixing beans and such, are, are just our high potential opportunity crops, if you will.

[Yeager] So that's a little bit of it's an outside part of the research and development, the r&d of things. But where do you see, I heard yesterday, was talked about in one of the sessions that we don't have enough of the smartest of the smart going into agriculture right now. Why do we need the smartest of the smart going into agriculture?

[Fowler] Well, yeah, agriculture is one of the most complicated businesses you can be in. Sometimes people that maybe are urban urbanites think, Well, it's a simple thing, you go out and plant the seed. Sometime a few months later, you harvest the crop, farmers making decisions on a day to day basis with the most amazing, almost incalculable number of variables going on. And they put themselves on the line, you plant a seed, and you're also planting a lot of hope for yourself, and you don't know what's going to come there, not too many businesses that are that complicated. And so I think there are a lot of places where young people can plug in. And one of the things that I love about the Borlaug dialogue and the World Food Prize, is it exposes a lot of young people to a diverse set of expertise of folks like me, and sometimes the spark is lit and and, and young people say, wow, you know, I didn't know you could have a career doing that.

[Yeager] It's that you might find the next Borlaug. We don't know. I mean, there might be someone down there, like, you know?

[Fowler] The last big Quantum Leap we made in food production, this world was due to Norman Borlaug.

[Yeager] So in that sense, we're due for another big idea?

[Fowler] It’s gonna say, what do we need? We need a few more and more logs.

[Yeager] When you have the opportunity to talk to the American farmer, which usually likes to listen to this or watch this. Why do they need to care about what's going on with the work that you're doing? On a day to day basis? How did they fit in and maybe even can help? 

[Fowler] Yeah, you know, there are a number of ways that I answer that question. I, by the way, I live on a farm. Well, I did live on a farm before I migrated to Washington for this job a year and a half ago. And I have a family farm in Tennessee, it's still in the family, fifth, fifth or sixth generation now. My experience is that farmers care about other farmers. So you talk to a farmer here about farm problems that are going on in Bangladesh or Zambia or something. And there's an immediate empathy. So because they know what that life is like, and they want that other farmer to succeed. I suppose if you want to get it down to dollars and cents, it's good for our American agriculture to actually have prosperous agriculture and other countries, particularly in continents like Africa, because at the moment, it's not a huge market for machinery for seeds for food or anything else. And how will it become a huge market? It's if the agriculture is lifted up and it becomes a little bit more prosperous?

[Yeager] Well, it gets back to one of the questions I asked you earlier about is a government as a private entity, but private business, you look at the John Deere or the case, those that see opportunity in those countries for profitable have to understand it might not be profitable, but it's also for the greater good if they put efforts in those.

[Fowler] Well, I can remember a discussion I had with the vice president of one of the African countries and they said, Well, you know, there are a lot. There's a lot of technology out there, and we need to just sit, use it and scale it up. Can you help us with that? And my response was well, can you in your government with your resources, which are limited? Can you scale it up? No. I said, Do you think that the United States, we can have the resources and the ability to scale it up for you? She said, No, probably not. I said we have to look to the private sector.

[Yeager] And it's a team effort. Yeah, absolutely. Finally here, as we just heard the Chinese to send people into sessions. You've been on a panel last year. What's your panel? You're on this year. And what were you with?

[Fowler] I was with someone from the CGIA, the Consultative Group on International Agricultural Research. It's a consortium of large agricultural research centers. And we were talking about this program we have at the State Department called back switch vision for adapted crops and soils. We needed an acronym.

[Yeager] It is the government.

[Fowler] And we were also you know, had the we were On this panel with last year's Food Prize Laureate, Cynthia Rosensweig is the climate modeling and the Vice President of EFF at the International Fund for Agricultural Development. So we're really trying to popularize this approach. And it's not just a series of programs or initiatives, what we're really trying to impress upon people, particularly abroad, is that food security fundamentally depends on the fundamentals. And the fundamentals are good soils, and adapted crops. And we can do all kinds of great, fun, fancy, sexy things with technology and agriculture. And my gosh, you know, we could talk a long time about those things. But fundamentally, we have to take care of business and businesses, the soil and the crop,

[Yeager] And our business’ time. And we're out of it. Dr. Fowler, I appreciate the time. Thank you so much. And enjoy the time when you get back to the farm there in West Tennessee. And we'll see you next time here.

[Fowler] Thanks so much. Appreciate you having me.

[Yeager] My thanks to Cary Fowler here at the Borlaug Dialogues as part of the World Food Prize celebration of Dr. Norman Borlaug. If you want to find any of the past episodes, you can easily go to our YouTube channel and watch them all there in video format or subscribe and follow. Where do you get your podcasts? It's the MToM Show podcast. It comes out each and every Tuesday. If you have feedback for the show, send it in an email MarkettoMarket@IowaPBS.org. See you next time.