Rebuilding Rural America: Entrepreneurship, Farming, and Local Food Economies

There's a new way to stay connected and know what's happening with market to market. When you subscribe to Market Insider, one email and a lot of information awaits you. Go to market to market.org and subscribe to Market Insider. Welcome in to the MTM podcast. I'm Paul Yeager. This is the second part of the book with the author, Brian Reisinger, Land Rich, Cash poor, as we talk about his family's hope and the untold story of the disappearing American farmer, you already heard us discuss in great detail about some of his history. We've kind of talked a little bit about some possible solutions, but this episode is going to be solely focused on what happened at Covid, what accelerated, what changed, and how rural America and agriculture can navigate the changing world. Using a little bit of Wisconsin as a blueprint and what they have done over the years. So we'll kind of dip in a little bit about Brian's family. And then at the end of this episode, we're going to have a fun new segment with Julie Knutson. She's going to explain and walk us through a segment as we kind of peel back the curtain of what it takes to put on the market to market TV show. That is what we have in store for you in this installment of the MTM podcast, which is a production of the Market to market TV show. Let's pick up part two of our conversation with Brian. Let's get to Covid because that changed us. And now I want to talk about the future as well. I say, and I know I'm not alone in this. I say it often in our office, Covid accelerated a lot of things that were already happening in this country. They brought issues to light faster than where we were headed in a way that was good because we all understood it as opposed to, oh, you know what? That is the truth. Your family. Let's talk specifically, what changed for Covid for you? Your dad was greatly, gravely ill. two hospital stints. so that was personal. Absolutely. But it also changed your farm.

[Reisinger] It did. You're so right. It. I think about Covid as a massive stress test to our food system. You know, it showed us where the strength is. It showed us where the weaknesses are. And so for us, as you said, my dad, he got the case of Covid. That wasn't the sniffles. There wasn't kind of a, you know, a thing that passes and is less serious for the next person or not. He got a very severe case. And so whatever people think about how Covid was handled, whatever people think about that issue overall, it was one that we had to live with very seriously in the back of an ambulance. I remember talking to him on the phone, and we tell that story in the book, and he was laid up for a couple of weeks. And my sister, who's been working, take over the farm, she grabbed the reins. And, you know, I'll say to the dad, actually saved our farm. And what we were living through at that time, as we were living the situation where prices were down. Why? Because, you know, goods couldn't move through the supply chain. Right. And we had that situation that farmers and consumers were living this kind of dystopian thing, whether they were whether everyone realized what was happening, everyone or not. We had food that was not on the grocery store shelves, or if it was, it was more expensive. And we had farmers who were trying desperately to sell their goods. And if they could, often the price is lower. Why is that? Because our supply chain and locked up, we have such an integrated supply chain. These days, that one big distribution center going down can affect the supply of food. It locks up that supply chain. Farmer can't sell what he can normally sell. Consumer can't buy what they normally would buy. And so you're so right that Covid unveiled that. And you know for our farm we dealt with my sister carrying things on without my dad for a time. And the uncertainty of is you going to come back? We also dealt with workforce issues. There were challenges getting the kind of help that we needed in that time. So we dealt with so many of those dilemmas on the ground, while at the same time, the broad food system was dealing with that shock to the system. I think you're right. It shows us, you know, many of the things that we need to figure out a way to address because they were coming and they continue to come. And, you know, there are other disruptions to our food supply, whether it's bird flu, whether it's invasive pests, whether it's weather, whether it's global conflict, we need to figure out a way to have a food system that has some more of that resilience built back into it.

[Yeager] Yeah. Let's see if I can get this right. Because given what you just said, I think the first sentence is Covid accelerated a lot of things. You've talked about it. It's in the book. We'll talk about it here in a moment that there's only four companies or three companies or choke points, whether it's the Bay in Long Beach or the Bay, you know, in South Carolina or Maryland or wherever it is, those three choke points. Yeah, this is exposing and allowing us and forcing us to address those situations at the same time, opening the door for your family farm to be part of the solution, I think.

[Reisinger] So, you know, we can't blow up and destroy our current food system and nor should we. it provides food in all corners of the country, and it's a modern miracle. Many ways, but it has these deep vulnerabilities. And I think therein lies the solution for everyone. Farms like ours that have gotten harder and harder to achieve scale. But we're still here finding a way for farms like ours to be able to have a full time income again, and feeding this country can not only create new entrepreneurial opportunity for farms like ours, but also it can create more opportunities for consumers. And it can give us a supply chain that just has more paths through it, you know? And some of them are national and international. Some of them are local and regional. Some of them are more specialty, some of them are more commodity based. We can have a world where we pursue all of these things, and I think we need to I think Covid showed that we we have to do that. But the good part is that there's economic opportunity in there. If we do it right.

[Yeager] It's like the way the market is, set up where we have different analysts each week. It is a different source of looking at some of the same things in a different take. our food system is similar in the sense of we do need different sources. we might know we get avocados from Mexico or, you know, whatever the commercials say. Or, you know, Wisconsin was America's dairy land and, you know, happy cows raise happy milk. And we buy into regionalization. And that is an absolute thing that I think agriculture can lean into and say, Minnesota does this well, Illinois does this well. Be proud of what we grow here in Missouri with peaches. You know, we have some of that infrastructure built.

[Yeager] How do we best build upon that?

[Reisinger] Yeah, you're absolutely right. And Wisconsin, it's the master cheesemaker program. Right. We went from being number one in milk production to no longer being that. But we could continue to make the best cheese and have that be our niche. So finding more and more of those niches. And I think there's a, there's a number of policy changes and other just shifts in terms of how we operate our economy. One is that we need to have a research and development revolution in this country. our research development spending by the government is at its lowest level since the 1970s. And whether it's by the government or whether it's by the private sector or private funding in universities, most of it is focused in agriculture. Most of it's focused on how do we continue to achieve that scale. We need to have more research and development. We need to have more of it be what's called scale neutral, where farms of all sizes not only large but also medium and small, can adopt it. They'll do it. My dad would call penciling out where he can say, well, I buy that. And over five years it gives me efficiency to pay it off, right. So we need to be able to do that. And there are examples of that AI. There are types of AI technology that could be scale neutral. There are types of gene editing that can be scale neutral. And these are things that could lead to new practices, new crops, new generations of farming done in more parts of the country that can meet one of those regional market needs, you know, find more ways for there to be new opportunities for farmers that can meet new market, new needs in the market. As we focus on more and more local and regional we also have to make sure that we have fair trade and then we have fair practices in our domestic economy, and that we're making sure that the farmer has a fair shot if we're doing those things. And our consumers are focused on where their food comes from, which people care more than ever, where their food comes from, and the consumer is helping to create more of that broader based market demand. You know, we have resilient farm families. And, you know, we have the American entrepreneurial system that will shift to meet those needs. So I think more R&D and innovation, the right policies and harnessing that consumer demand, if it can continue to grow, can really be parts of the solution.

[Yeager] Okay. you can't answer three parts like that. And allow me to just let that guide. We just had an election where the voter, every op ed or, every bit about the election says it was a pocketbook issue. You and I both know food that's grown locally when you go to the farmers market, buying that tomato that's more of a commodity than buying that pepper or whatever is rare to your area is going to cost me more than it is at my grocery store. And people said that was important to them. So how do you convince someone that yes, spending 8%, 12% more for some of that produce, that I know where it was grown and can drive by? It is more important to pay than saving my family 20% at the grocery store.

[Reisinger] It's a great question. We got to ask ourselves those hard questions if we're going to work through these situations, right? So here's the reality. The current food system we have, although it's a modern miracle and it's delivered affordable food for a long time, it really isn't as affordable as it once was. In some cases, it's not more affordable than what you can find as far as local or regional options. It depends. But you know, the cost of food has gone up so much faster than the rate of inflation. And the reasons for that include the disruptions to our supply chain that happen so easily and regularly now. And it also includes the fact that you can't hammer an industry like we have American farming, and expect the innovation and productivity to continue to go up at the same pace. So we've got real structural problems with the price of food that are going to persist and continue to get worse, and in some cases already make our traditional food sources not more affordable. What people can find. The problem that we have is that in most places, it's a false choice. People either have, you know, local grocery store where they can get their food, or a farmer's market that's kind of rare and is way more expensive. We need more local and regional options to address the vulnerabilities of our food supply. And by becoming more plentiful, bring that price down. And what we are seeing is we are seeing on the one hand, that traditional food system is facing some of those vulnerabilities driving that cost food up. We're also seeing more farmers markets, more specialty food stores, more types of local and regional food economy growing in certain places. And so it's true that in some places, in some types of food, you can get something affordable through a local food source. And there's also grocers who are willing to have local food options. If they know that their consumers will buy it. And so if we move in this direction, we all take baby steps. I don't tell people, you don't have to throw out the way you grocery shop now and go for the more expensive option, every single case, but try to diversify it a little bit. You know, you might go to your local grocery store, stop at your local butcher shop, or off at a farmer's market for something that you know is affordable down the street as well.

[Yeager] But in your. Let's use Madison as an example. In a community that's very progressive thinking and and living, you know, and they will probably get that. But if you go to, a community maybe 30 minutes out, 20 minutes out, that is not going to be the same sentiment. They because they have to factor in their gas to get into town to, to get that they're not going to be as willing, even though they might be closer to where that farm is. So there's still a divide there that has to be overcome. And I, I don't know if it's as easy as what you and I are proposing here.

[Reisinger] It's certainly not as easy as I hope it would be.

[Yeager] Yeah, maybe that's better. I hope it is better.

[Reisinger] Yeah. Yeah. You know, you're right. And I live that reality. You know, we're about we're about 45 minutes from Madison. And you know where I'm from. You know, you don't go into the farmers market in Madison to buy your groceries. It's a ways away. And, you know, and, you know, but the reality is we don't have a local grocery store there anymore either, you know? So I think what we need is we need that demand to be met by a more robust local food economy. There are small towns where farmers markets are sprouting up. We need farmers who are willing to take a little bit of a gamble on, you know, putting a little bit of acreage toward a food product that can maybe be sold locally. We need consumers who are willing to buy their food from more places. It is absolutely a persuading of hearts and minds. And to your point, and ironically, it gets a little more difficult as you get out into rural areas because that option isn't readily available. And, you know, it's.

[Yeager] No different than your mom and or your dad and your sister. When they were trying to find the they had to find a market for their dairy cows. When they were getting ready to liquidate the herd. I lost your video again. Darn it. Okay, it's a lot like your sister and your dad. when they were trying to find the outlet for their cattle. Yep. They were. They wanted to find the best fair price. So in that sense, if I'm growing food versus a commodity, I have to. I have to do some of the work to find my own market or find my own outlet and buyer. Yeah, that's also that's a little bit of responsibility on the grower, too. It's not just all on the consumer here.

[Reisinger] That's right. That's right. We have to be willing to branch out and take those risks and try to find that market, you know, whether it's marketing online, whether it's word of mouth locally, probably a lot a little bit of all of these things, we have to be willing to do a little bit that we also have to have, as if the consumer and the farmer are getting a little closer together and everyone's inching toward one another. We also have to have infrastructure grow up around that, right? I mean, you know, there's a lot of farmers in the Midwest who know where to take their grain to the grain elevator, but they don't have anywhere to go with specialty wheat or artisan tomatoes. And so we do need to have some of that food infrastructure also grow up. And some of that might be existing companies that decide they want to do business with small farms and work in local regional markets because they care about resiliency. They know that's a smart thing for them long term business wise. Or it could be additional small businesses that grow up and and, you know, make our supply chain a little bit more diverse.

[Yeager] And I've had that conversation with people who grow pulse crops. And I'm like, well, what's your outlands like? Well, we have a pet food, factory nearby. I mean, it's those factories have to find, and they have to convince 20 farmers to grow something that will go into their factory. It's like the organic discussion you have to be able to. I know of a young farmer who's like, we are struggling because, my organic crop, I don't have an outlet for it. And so you just have to be able to make sure that you can find a place to take that crop when the time comes. And that's a little bit of responsibility. Sorry, that's just a tangent. My question though, Brian, is cheap food. I long had a relative tell me over the years that we everybody just wants cheap food. I think help me if I get my numbers right. pre-COVID, we were at 10% of our spending for our food. Now we're at 15% post, Covid post inflation issues. Still some of the lowest in the world. But you can't tell everybody that or they don't. They still think it's too expensive.

[Reisinger] Yep. And that's where it's a little bit of leap of faith for people. You know what I say to people? I say the food isn't, you know, is it more affordable now? Does it feel affordable anymore? You know, and it and it doesn't. And you say one of the solutions is diversify how you buy what you buy. And maybe you'll pay a little more over here and a little bit less over here.

[Reisinger] But you know, change that mix because it can create new entrepreneur opportunity for our farmers. And if we can do that, we can begin to address the structural reasons food is so expensive.

[Yeager] And in like in Covid. You mentioned the local meat facility. That was actually one of the solutions was the remember all the stories of, oh, Iowa did it. I think Wisconsin did it, too. In a couple of other states, they put money into local meat, processing facilities, ones that only would maybe accept two cows a day, were accepting 20 because they were able to expand. They were able to find employees to do it. We have to make sure those lockers, the meat lockers can, can stay afloat. And that's just one little link in this chain.

[Reisinger] Yeah. And that's what's so hard about this, is we're all jumping into the water at the same time. You know, the farmer, the consumer, the agribusiness, the food company, the government. We all need to have faith in this idea that we can build a more resilient supply chain. And for me, it is the thing that can solve this crisis of the disappearing American farmer, which is so crucial. And I just think that helping people understand all these things are all connected. It's it's challenging, but it's true. So, you know, there's benefit to that.

[Yeager] Is the town that you're closest to, Sauk? Is that how you pronounce it?

[Reisinger] Good guess. Very close. We are. It is Sauk. That's how you pronounce it. We're about ten, 15 miles from there. We have to be a little closer to the village, of Plain, five minutes away. But you're talking about our region.

[Yeager] Yeah, so? So Plain. Sauk. Jesup. Wherever that small town is, how do I improve my home town if I'm watching this? the hoping that a the government kind of helps private industry kind of helps. I can do some things on my own. Where's the magic part here? As we move into this new era of politics that we'll have with new Congress, new president, there's some opportunities here to have some discussions that could really change some lives. How do we do this? Rural, urban. Let's get together and help everyone.

[Reisinger] Absolutely. Explore your food sources and ask that question, how can I create new entrepreneur opportunity for our farmers? And what that translates into is maybe you got one grocery store in the area. Yeah. Ask them, will they carry some local options? They have anything that they carry from local farmers. You know, if there is a local butcher shop, go there. If you got a farmer down the road that you know, sells has a beef, you know, consider doing it that way. If there is a fruit stand or there's an actual farmer's market that gathers, go buy some of your food there, you know, take whatever step you can in your area. I mean, some people don't have a farmer's market in the area. Some people don't have any local grocery store. There's just one large chain go there and ask that grocer if they're want to carry some local options, you know, just explore what's around you and try to just take a step where you can if even if it's a small one, if we all took a version of that step, it would be, you know, nationwide demand if everyone did it, you know, so it's worth it.

[Yeager] Our communities also need you mentioned the entrepreneurial spirit and it's and it's heavy on food. But we also need businesses and we need to have policy that encourages entrepreneurship. Do you want to step out of food policy and debate, about, you know, we got to find some manufacturing in some places or we have to, use that technology that can be used on the farm or, you know what? What else are small towns going to have to do here?

[Reisinger] Yeah, absolutely. It is part of a broader tapestry of things. And here's some of the good news. another silver lining of Covid is that people realize they can live anywhere for certain types of work. And so you do have and a lot of people wanted to move back to rural areas. So you have certain rural areas that are growing in population that means more people, more money, more ideas, more customers. And so there's an opportunity for some of our rural communities to have a resurgence. I think we do need to have government policy that allows for small businesses to be have a fair shot in this country. A lot of people don't realize I know people who live in rural areas, you know, live this, that, you know, rural areas are far more likely to have self-employed folks, individual small business owners, some counties, some rural counties. There was one study showed they're nine times more likely to have someone who's self-employed than an urban county. The reason for this is in cities and suburbs, there's, you know, good size, established companies that provide a lot of services. In rural areas. There's a lot of folks filling gaps. There's a lot of carpenters, plumbers, electricians, hairdressers, caregivers who are filling gaps where there isn't an established company to do it. So there's a lot of people that are working for themselves, independent contractors, small business owners, and they're working class folks, but they happen to write their own paycheck, you know, rather than get their paycheck from an employer. So we need to have policies that are fair to Main Street as well, is another big part of this too.

[Yeager] And that has been addressed in some school and legislation for schools. I've, I know a gal, school counselor and she says in my community and I know where she grew up, they had two counselors in the school. It was, do you want to go work at the factory, or do you want to go to college? You go talk to. And then there was this where all everybody needs to go to college. Now it's Covid exposed us that we need a lot more people doing factory and, and the, the plumbing and the electrical and the construction is that is that does that need to be a 5050 balance?

[Reisinger] You're so right. I think it needs to be much more of an all of the above situation rather than a false choice, you know, and there are some kids who need to go to college, some kids who can go into the trades and have a perfectly good living in. It's noble work. It's good work, you know, and and I think we need to have a mix of, of encouraging kids to pursue college, pursue trade school, you know, if they have an opportunity to do an apprenticeship, you know, all of the above. And I would love to add one more thing to that list. I would love to have a bright on a future for our farms, where our guidance counselors are telling their kids, hey, go into farming. That's the thing is, you. They don't hear that. People I hear a lot of people say, well, none of young people want a farm anymore. I say, you know, there's a lot of passionate kids. And for an FFA, they love the animals. They love what they're doing. Why aren't they farming? You know, the reason they're farming is because they don't see the opportunity, don't have any guidance counselors tell them that's a bright future. And even if they did have them, tell them that they know that there's no way for them to do it. You know, Grandpa Farm is getting sold or their family doesn't have land. How are they ever going to afford it? You know, so if we can improve some of these problems, I think we can add going into farming, onto that list for kids as well, because they're doing noble things, are going into the trades that work in an agriculture. They're going to have to do something else, but more of them ought to be able to consider farming, too.

[Yeager] I just had this conversation before we started to roll with someone, asking her background. She was, I'm one of four, three brothers. There's no space for a fourth on that farm even to find a space for three. I've had countless conversations with farmers. If you want to come home and be on this farm, Bryan or Paul, you're going to have to figure out a way to make your own lane. So is that going to be we're going to grow chickens. We're going to grow an artisan tomatoes. You're going to market this. You're going to take teaching that entrepreneurial I don't have it, but I know that it can be taught to an extent. But it's certainly improved in our schools too.

[Reisinger] Yeah, that's absolutely right. Teaching kids how to balance a checkbook, teaching kids how to pursue, you know, what is a market look like? How do you know, I mean, all of those things, those are incredible skills. I mean, having a world where we have kids, they can go off to college, go off to trade school, go straight to work, do an apprenticeship, go farm, be an entrepreneur of another kind, be a small business owner. Imagine that world. That would be it. That would be an exciting place. And there's a lot of I mean, I know a lot of people in the community where I'm from who now they're in their 30s and 40s. They figured out enough about life, and they decided, after working at the employment dealer, that they're going to go off on their own and, you know, run their own local shop fixing up tractors. And they've they've figured it out. But what if we were teaching that to kids from the beginning? You know, how many kids could could be entrepreneurs coming out of high school? I think that's a world that could exist, especially in a rural economy where there's that need.

[Yeager] I know that my home community, there's a guy who they have set up a center to work on that. And I know in a big town, a big suburb here in the Des Moines area, they absolutely work on, they have a session where the kids can come in and do it. So there are opportunities. There are schools trying to do it. We just have to, it's going to take us a little while. Brian, as we close overall message of this book and this way of life to you, obviously you're always thinking about what's next, but how do you feel where we are at and is there hope for the future?

[Reisinger] There is hope for the future. I do feel that hope. The thing that makes me hopeful, even though there are so many things that make me afraid, are just the resilience of our farm families. You know, I mentioned my dad and the way he stepped up the AG. You know, I think about me and my sister waking up with the sunshine to, you know, before sunup to work with my dad and the beauty of seeing a calf take our first breath. You know, all that stuff is what sustains and fuels our farm families. Even though farming isn't working in so many ways economically. So we've still got nearly 2 million farms, even though we've lost 70% of them and 96% of our family farms. So there's nearly 2 million incredibly resilient farm families still full. Not even though this is a way of life that in many ways doesn't work in this country anymore. So what if we made it work? And if we make these changes to make it work, the resilience of those families, not only mine and the stories that we tell, but so many of them across the country, the resilience of those farm families can solve a lot of problems if we let it.

[Yeager] Enjoy the book, I really did, Brian, thank you so much for the time. it was a very good read. And, there's a few people in my family that are really getting this for Christmas. they can't have my copy because I kind of, I marked heavily in a lot of margins. there's a whole lot of Integration. You talked about McDonald's. I mean, gosh, we could go on and on and on forever. Brian, thank you so very much for the time.

[Reisinger] Well, thank you. I really appreciate it. People can get rich cash on Amazon or anywhere else online bookstores nationwide. I hope anybody who picks it up just, you know, spreads the word, keeps conversation all about these issues. So thank you so much.

[Yeager] When is the last time you have been on camera?

[Julie Knutson] I can't think of a time I was on camera.

[Yeager] Did Julie Knutson ever want to be on camera? 

[Knutson] No. 

[Yeager] Julie Knutson is a production technician here at Iowa PBS. Which means what.

[Knutson] It means I help, get all of our shows ready for air with technical aspects, making sure they look and sound their best and getting it ready for air.

[Yeager] You are a very, I always think, organized person. Why does organization matter in television?

[Knutson] Because there are so many, so many moving parts that things can change and making sure all the details are there. if I didn't have my checklists, I would definitely miss something.

[Yeager]

Spreadsheet. Checklist. when you do the fair, which is a massive thing that we do here, the Iowa State Fair coverage, everything has a check. There's eight columns here and six columns here. And that's just for one segment. Yeah. And we have we do that dozens of times each show. what made you want to do television or do this career?

[Knutson] Well, I started I was a music major, so logically, I went into television right. I actually I went to Bethany Lutheran College, and they were starting coverage of the Mankato State, I guess Minnesota State at Mankato now. Their hockey team, they needed somebody to do it. So they hired Bethany to do it, and they're like, hey, we need a TV. Like, sure. What's that? Not having any idea what that meant? It turns out it was kind of a big deal. And, but that's how I got my taste of production. Sports production specifically. And then I loved it. And here I am.

[Yeager] But this is a segment that I think, can I think, people really kind of are curious what's behind the curtain?

[Knutson] Well, I mean, I'm even curious when I see another show and we've talked about this before, but something as simple as Wheel of Fortune, it was cool. And they had Ryan Seacrest on for the first time, and they showed behind the puzzle, which I had never seen before. And I'm like, oh, that's so cool. Or, you know, when they were watching Sunday Night Football and they show the shots up in the control booth, I'm intrigued. So I can see. I don't know if that's just because that's what we do, make it more interesting, or if there's genuinely a curiosity by the people at large.

[Yeager] Jeff, this is all your fault, because I was speaking somewhere recently and, my friend said, who's a very regular, loyal listener and I appreciate him and everybody that's done is my most favorite episode that you've done is the one where you explain how you get harvest footage. And I kind of walked through and I took Darren Clouse and we did this and we talk through, okay, so Darren's moving here, Darren's moving there.  And, that was fascinating. It was fun for me. It was just a different episode. But I think that's what we're going to try to do here, I think.

[Knutson] So I think we just want to take people, like you said, peek behind the curtain, see how how does it all happen, and get a little taste of behind the scenes.

[Yeager] So if you have an idea or something you want to see, I've been writing about it in the newsletter. the Market Insider Newsletter, which you can subscribe and market to market talk, comes every Monday at 9:55 a.m., and you can read the segment and you have been in the segment. We've talked about things that you've done. I've grossly shortchanged some things, so I think we can maybe explain them in better detail and maybe clearer.

[Knutson] That would probably be good. I don't want to, you know, let that the misinformation or, you know, give me a bad name.

[Yeager] It's not misinformation. It's not maybe the full I mean, but there's also details that that just in a quick three, four paragraphs, I just don't have the room. But I think we're going to try to explain things with video and audio and walk through. That's the goal I think. So okay. So we have a list, of items, but we want to know what are you curious about? And I'm talking about mic placement, camera placement, lights, technical like all the keyboard stuff, editing, how we come up with stories. That's all I think. Fair game. Yeah. Fair game for.

[Knutson] You. Sure. All right.

[Yeager] You feel better about this? Yeah. We'll see. We'll see. Once your relatives start giving you a saying. Is this the Julie podcast that Paul does some interviews in front of? You think that you don't think you'll share this with your family?

[Knutson] Well, we'll see about.

[Yeager] That. That's I may have to just message your sister and say, hey, check this out. Check out your sister. Thank you, Julie. 

[Knutson] Thank you Paul. 

[Yeager] That's going to do it for this episode of the MTM podcast. New episodes come out each and every Tuesday. If you have an item that you think is of interest for the end of the segment or the podcast itself, send me an email. Market to Market @ IowaPBS.org. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. Bye bye.

Contact: Paul.Yeager@Iowapbs.org