Tim Dufault gets off the tractor, but not out of farming

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[Yeager] Welcome into the MToM podcast studio. I'm Paul Yeager. This is a production of Iowa PBS in the market to mark a TV show. We're bringing back a guest, but a new conversation because the situation has changed for Tim Dufault. He is a farmer from Crookston, Minnesota. You see him participate in our program from time to time. Tim in Minnesota, maybe $6 wheat guy, contributing a question. Things have changed with him and his farming situation. We're going to talk about his retirement. But what he did with the land to me, is what makes this very interesting and just as, as, as a famous saying goes in our family, something to think about. we'll talk about what led to his decision, what he's trying to do now with this next generation of farmers and what's next for him. That is this episode of the MToM podcast. Let's hear it now. Tim, I'm going to open with an apology, because the last time you and I talked, I did the unthinkable and misspelled your name. I am so sorry for that. Still, to this day, I think about it.

[Dufault] You're not. You're not the first one that's. There's so many times the spelled default. You just forget about it.

[Yeager] Well, we last talked, right before, right. Early days of Covid, I think. And you had been out to Washington to be on a panel, and I kind of asked you about some of that. But let's recap a little bit. Your farming in northwest Minnesota, is that north or do you call it northwest? What's northwest traffic location.

[Dufault] Because northeast Minnesota is more, the forestry and the lakes and stuff. Northwest is more of the prairie. So that's the agriculture area. So, yeah, I'm, just east of Crookston, Minnesota, which is northwest Minnesota. We're 35 miles from the North Dakota border and about 80 miles from the Canadian border. So we're up there a ways.

[Yeager] How did the year go for you?

[Dufault] Another challenging year, Paul. The last winter was beautiful. mild. the spring started out fine, and then it started raining and raining and raining. So we started planting and second week of April like normal. And I didn't finish until into June. which really wears on a guy. And that's the third year in a row now. We finished planting in June, and I don't know if I my whole life before that, if I ever had three years where I finished in June. But here they were, back to back to back. And then the growing season, stayed wet, which, was concerning, but then kind of dried out there in July and August, had a decent wheat crop, field dependent, if you got the field in early, it was fantastic. Some of the later fields weren't so much, same with the soybeans. had a couple fields. It just had, you know, home run for yields and a couple of them just struggled with too much water. So, you know, that's farming.

[Yeager] Well, I interviewed somebody from Blue Earth, which is several, couple hundred miles south of you, of course, but we're you getting as much rain as they did along I-90. I mean, to that.

[Dufault] Yeah. They had that one week where they really got pounded and we didn't have anything like that. We were just always getting, three quarters of an inch or an inch, you know, every 4 or 5 days or something like that. But they, they yeah, they got flooded out there and they lost a lot of cropland or a lot of crop from that.

[Yeager] And if you get too much rain, you're in the ponding area right where ponds will stick around for a long, long time.

[Dufault] Not really. it's. I'm so we're in the bottom of an old, glacier bed, and everything flows to the Red River of the north. But the border of Minnesota, North Dakota. So there's a fair bit of slope from where I'm at that, you know, you got to do ditching and everything, but it's pretty good.

[Yeager] Speaking of good. I guess I'm already kind of like, thinking about, you know, your year and just processing the weather. I mean, when did you finally get rain in the fall, or has it not fallen yet?

[Dufault] it was about, Yeah, it wasn't till November, really, and we kind of needed that. So we had a glorious fall if we had falls like this every year or so. September, October, we're dry above normal temperatures. you know, the middle of August, guys were worried the corn wasn't going to make it. It wasn't going to make it. And come October, they're combining dry corn. And it was great. So we had a wonderful fall. And then, yeah, November, we probably had an inch and a half of rain before it froze up. Now. So we're sitting okay.

[Yeager] Anything significant about this year's crop?

[Dufault] Well, the price is terrible, but, you know, otherwise the region had a pretty good overall crop year.

[Yeager] Did you? I'm not saying we're breaking news. You've announced it publicly online. This was your last crop.

[Dufault] Yep, yep.

[Yeager] When did that decision get made?

[Dufault] Last year. I just, you know, I'm 60 while I'll be 61 here in January or 65 in January. You can't farm forever. Although when I did say I was retiring, people were saying, well, geez, farmers never retire. Well, this one's going to retire. yeah. It just, you know, none of the kids were going to come back to farm. And, so I keep going, I farm with my older brother, and he's ten years older than I am. So, it's just getting to be more work for both of us. and then, like I say, the last three seasons with the late spring, you just never had a break during the growing season to get away for a vacation or a weekend even. And after a while, it's just like, why am I doing this? It's time to hang her up. Let somebody else try it.

[Yeager] Well, your brother, I can't. I mean, as I knew I remember you farmed with your brother, but I forget what his family situation is. I mean, does he have kids that are interested?

[Dufault] No, he doesn't either.

[Yeager] So is this, you're holding on and going to rent, or are you going to sell everything?

[Dufault] No, no, no, no sense in selling just yet. So we're renting it out. I've kind of had an ex on my back for several years from the neighbors. But so I rent it out to six different young guys, and I try to make everybody happy. you know, just give everybody a little bit. But, you know, I wish I had more land to help these guys out with, but they're all getting a good start, and, yeah, yeah, it's good for the community.

[Yeager] And that's what intrigued me. And that's why I wanted to connect. So was there a process that you had with these farmers? Because, you know, there's always that, the old adage, when the farmer dies before the visitation happens, there's already six farmers at the door. Hey, you know, it's good to see. We all know why you're there. When it was known, you know, when you said you had an ax on your back. I mean, did you have a process that you were going to go through? And what was it to determine who was going to be those farmers you mentioned? Young. Was that item one that.

[Dufault] Yeah. Yeah. You know, I had one guy ask me, he's, smaller farm, works in the bank full time. And, he was asking about land, and I said, well, I hate to upset you, but, you know, he's 41. You're too old, you know, I wanted to keep it as young as I could or the smaller operation was, you know, I had one guy pull in the yard. He's older than I am, and he was asking for his son, and I'm thinking, well, why isn't your son here? And, well, they lost a few hundred acres, and they could really use some more. And I said, well, how many acres area farming now? Well, 5000. It's like, yeah, you're probably okay, you know, but, so the ones I've rented to, you know, they're from, the small cattle herd, he's renting 60 acres for alfalfa to, well, I don't know if there's anybody. Yeah, the the one they might be at 2000 acres would be the biggest, you know. And and he's the neighbor coming in to start with the other farmer. He's taken him under his wing. That's what I really wanted to do. if I could have a, like, a turnkey a few years ago with someone, bring someone in and say, you know, here. Have worked with me for a few years. but it was hard to find somebody like that. the state of Minnesota, Minnesota Department of AG has a website where they try and link up, retiring guys with young guys, but there just wasn't enough, interest for someone around here that wanted to relocate. So I had to go the other out and just rent to the guys in the neighborhood.

[Yeager] That website. How old or how long has that been around?

[Dufault] Oh, probably 5 or 6 years. Or at least that I know of, maybe a little longer.

[Yeager] And so the goal is always to do kind of what you did and find land farmer partner.

[Dufault] Right, right. Yeah. Somebody that wants to give it, you know, give a next generation a chance. Someone that doesn't have land but has a passion for agriculture. but then that's a, tough hill to climb to because it's so capital intensive. Unless that young person's got some, good banker behind them, it's tough to buy into an operation. But, you know, I was willing to see what we could do, but I just couldn't find anybody.

[Yeager] Because I'm guessing. Tim, you could have. You may have left some dollars on the table. If you would have gone with a larger farmer who might have been able to pay more for rent. But you are taking it as an opportunity to get someone started. Was that part of your motivation as well?

[Dufault] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, I could have turned it over to one of the mega farms in the area and rented it out for top dollar and moved to Florida. But that's not us. That's not what my wife and I want to do. So, you know, you look around and the churches or the school district, you know, the stores, the storefronts downtown, you know, let's keep as many farmers as we can going. That's what I want to do. And, you know, we're at a good point in our financial situation that I can afford to leave a few dollars on the table.

[Yeager] Commonality – everybody's under 40. Is that what I gather?

[Dufault] Yeah, I think that one is probably going to turn 40. He's, But he he's the he's the guy that he's, had a small beef cooperation. Okay. expanded that a little bit more. Doesn't have any land. So last year he asked me about renting out some. I've got some, rolly land along a creek that's odd shaped and everything. He said, what if you'd rent that off or off? And I thought, that's a beautiful idea, because now we can help with erosion, and it's a, you know, and cut it up. So. Yeah, here you go. And, so he's the oldest one. I got one that just graduated college here about a year ago. yeah. It was a couple of them that are under 25, you know. So it'll be fun to watch these guys grow and mature.

[Yeager] Absolutely. Did you put parameters on, you know, checking in with you or running, plans, by you, like when you said one cut into alfalfa? but were there any rules, I guess, that you put in on these guys?

[Dufault] No. Not really. I did offer everyone, so I've gone to, I'll call it. No, till everybody's got a different definition of no tell. Depends on what area of the world you live in. But I've pretty much gone to minimum to no till. And I told each one of them that, you know, if you go to no tell if you, you know, if you want to do that, I'll cut your rent by 10% because I'm protecting my asset, like I told them, I, you know, this is my asset. If I had an apartment building, I wouldn't want to rent to people with pets or smokers. And so I'm going to be protective of my land and we're going to work together on that. so I've got two of them that are taking me up on that. They're, and part of the other thing is, once you get started in Nortel, it takes a few years before that land really starts to show the benefits of it. And I'm just getting to that point. So I told these guys, you know, if you go ahead and work it up this fall, and you decide two years down the road what, you just lost five years of Nortel. So let's try it now. And so they're going to do that and I, I hope it works for them. You know it's a mind change.

[Yeager] Are you going on word or did you put that in writing.

[Dufault] Oh that's in the contract. Yeah. Yeah. And the contract.

[Yeager] And I've heard and I've pitched that exact same thing to other people. you know, when they were like, well, I kind of want a hold on the land, but I feel really strongly about, let's say, cover crops and they want their renter to, to do that. So where did that idea, sink hold for you? I mean, you mentioned the, you know, keeping the investment like it's an apartment or a house or something like that. But where else did you get that idea from?

[Dufault] You know, I really don't know where that came from, Paul. I think it just, you know, one of those things, when you're on a tractor, one day you get these crazy ideas and kind of came to me. It's like, yeah, let's do that, you know? And like here yesterday, you know, in northern Minnesota, we had a winter squall come through, which was a mini blizzard for a couple of hours, a little bit of snow, but 50 mile an hour gusts and, you know, whiteout conditions. And now today, things to settle down. I went to town this morning and you can see where the dirt has blown on top of the white snow. And, you know, and we had everything snow covered. so that's what I'm trying to preserve.

[Yeager] I'm not saying I there's a word I want to use here to describe what you're doing, and I don't know if it. There is. A farmer is a steward of the land. You're not being brave. Like, you know, you're going off to war. But again, you have to have strong convictions in what you're doing and warning that, I mean, if your kids, your kids know what you've been about, Tim, as a farmer for, for their whole lives, then they know what you are. They might not fully see it as much as you would hoped, or that maybe others will. But this is your chance to kind of a next generation pass on in my eyes. I think it that way. Do you see it that way?

[Dufault] I guess I hadn't thought about that, Paul, but yeah, I mean, you know, you learn from your parents, and if your parents are stewards of the land, you're probably going to be that way, whether it's, you know, suburban home or it's the farm homestead back in Minnesota.

[Yeager] Do you ever think about, you know, you know, these people who retire, then they go into teaching. Does that feel like what you're doing now?

[Dufault] Maybe mentoring? I wouldn't say so much. I got a phone call here this morning. I got to give a call back. a young guy came back to the area, mid-career. He took over from his uncle's farm, and he wants to do more soil health in North Hill. And he had talked with the local extension agent, and she called me a couple days ago because she said I couldn't answer all those questions, but can I give him your contact information? So he called me. So yeah, I'll sit down with him and tell him what I know. good or bad, you know, but it's, something to work off of. So, Yeah, I don't feel like, a teacher necessarily, but, you know, farmers are more than willing to share their opinions, as you probably well know.

[Yeager] No, I've never known a farmer to share their opinion once. a day, an hour. oh. Hold on. My phone just went off. I have another opinion that just came in. Who was your mentor? Who do you always say to someone that helped you in those early years?

[Dufault] Well, of course, my dad. Yeah.

[Yeager] But not everybody takes the advice of their parent, though. That's. I guess that's what I'm going for.

[Dufault] Well, and, you know, the best thing I can say about dad is he let me make my own decisions. once he turned, you know, I was renting some land along with him, and we were working together. And then when he finally said, okay, I'm done. It's yours. he never got in my hair about anything, you know, it was like, why didn't you sell when you should have? Or why are you planting that? You know, but the only disagreements we'd have is I'd tell him, you know, like in the spring, we'll go work this field and then go work that field. And dad would say, well, I'll, I'll go work this one and then I'll go work that one. You know, that was the about the extent of it. So he was really good to work with and, you know, him and just other growers. I mean, you can pick up a kernel of knowledge from just about anybody if you listen hard enough. So, just listening to other neighbors really helped.

[Yeager] And there has to be a willingness for that. I mean, there has to be, thirst or a thirst, a hunger for knowledge. And not everybody has that, though. A lot of people are set. I know what's best or whatever person drives into my driveway with whatever they're selling. They know best because they're a profession. It's a hard line for farmers to, to, to walk. I think still to this day, that hasn't changed.

[Dufault] No, no, you know, it's just like the whole soil health or going to conservation until. Well, we've always done it this way. Why do I want to change? And, you know, I tell people, like when I was a young teenager, I finally learned how to, you know, plow with a board plow. By the time I got good at that, then dad bought a chisel plow and we didn't wallboard plow anymore. And that has kept changing. And so now we're getting into no till and, you know, it's just things like that, over a course of a lifetime, you realize nothing stays the same. I mean, we're not farming at all like when I first started farming. And so you got to be willing to change. And so. So those growers that know, by God we've always done it this way. And we're always going to do it that way. You know, you're going to lose out in the end on that.

[Yeager] This episode comes after, double header episode where I discuss the book Land Rich, Cash Poor with the author who grew up in Wisconsin, and he talked about, diversification of farms, how farms have evolved. He tells the story over four generations of his family that raised milk cows, and how his sister at the end said, we're just not going to be able to compete. We've got to get out of the dairy. We're going to have to do some other things. Do you feel as you look back here, Tim, about diversity and in agriculture, your area is a little different because you do have to grow different crops and kind of always have had that opportunity from the wheat to the corn to the beans. I mean, even three crops is better than two crops in a lot of areas. But do you feel it in your time when you talk about this new knowledge or be willing to change that? that your neighborhood, your area has embraced diversity when it comes to farming?

[Dufault] I don't know if embraced. There's a lot of experimental with different crops. You know, like canola was a, thing for a while around here. and found out that we're a little too far south for that. Sunflowers had their day back in the 70s and 80s. Dry arable beans had come in. Potatoes were big when I started. Now they've kind of moved out to where the irrigated areas are. and corn moved in in a big way, and in a big way. I mean, everybody's putting up large bins and leg systems and dryers. we look like Iowa up here now, where, you know, when I started farming, you might have 80 acres of corn. And you hope that it made corn before the frost hit. So then they'll experiment. I haven't really seen a lot of diversity. I would have loved if we would have had livestock up here. More livestock. And like dad told me when he got rid of the cows and the chickens, it was his happiest days of his life. Yeah, I get that. But the more you learn about, the whole cycle with manure and raising your own feed value added, we'd probably be better off if we had some of that up here.

[Yeager] And it changes. Yeah. Everybody's geography, access to markets. I mean, you're as close to Canada, as anybody is. And you always have to kind of think about that. Relationships. We could spend another episode all on, on trade issues, but maybe I'll put you and Phil together and we'll do a trade thing, say February, March. We'll talk about that, get us all in trouble. Tim, before I wrap up here, one of the things that we talked about with, the guy that took over our home place, and I was meeting with my mom, this summer, and I said, here's the thing. You got to do one thing, and you gotta watch market to market. So did you, are you wearing your hat around? Them and tell them they gotta, you know, watch the show? I just it's just selfish, that's all I know.

[Dufault] But, I've got their email address because I know some of these guys are the kind of. Well, and they're younger, so they've got winter jobs or, you know, part time jobs. So they're busy, but, there's some of these, extension events or seminars that, you know, hey, you might want to take a couple hours and go to this. So I'm going to kind of push them in that direction. Our local, soil and water conservation people the last couple of years have had, soil health talks, a few times a month during the winter months. And, you know, once you get exposed to some of that, it starts making sense. So maybe get them to that, or maybe get them to some marketing seminars that they, you know, instead of just listening to what everybody else is doing as far as selling crops. So, I think I'll be pushing that as far as market to market. Yeah, I always recommend that to everybody.

[Yeager] We always appreciate it. We've always appreciated your questions. Does this mean you're done asking questions?

[Dufault] Oh, no. Oh, no, not at all.

[Yeager] Okay, that'll be good. do you know what this is? One of those, like, you know, I, I do a lot of oral histories about it with Iowa broadcasters and things like that. And we always going to ask, you know, what's your legacy? What do you what do you think your legacy, your farming legacy is going to be here, Tim?

[Dufault] That's a good question, Paul. I'll have to get back to you on that one. I mean, I hope 40 years from now there's six producers that are saying, you know, that they're still farming. And maybe I had a little something to do with it. That would be great.

[Yeager] But, I commend you absolutely for the, you know, I'm sorry, it's 4 or 6 different farmers. Six. That's amazing. I just but that's a way also you're going to be it's going to be kind of fun to see how everybody approaches things differently. And somebody might have some grand new idea on something. And you're going to have to probably bite your knuckle for a minute. Like we tried that. It didn't quite work, but maybe something changes in it. It will work this time. That's probably going to be the hardest thing for you come spring, isn't it?

[Dufault] Right? And like I said earlier about my dad just leaving me alone, I'm going, wait, these guys alone, it's like, hey, you know, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I'm going to leave you alone. I don't agree with it, but go for it, guys, you know?

[Yeager] Yeah. And they ask you, and that, you know, if they ask you, you'll. I'm sure give them a response.

[Dufault] Yeah, yeah. And they're, they're, they're good thoughtful guys. So, I'm not afraid of that. That they're going to want to engage me in, you know. Well, what do you think? So yeah, that'll be good.

[Yeager] You mentioned travel is something that would be, you know, the not necessarily you're going to travel nonstop, but you can do things in April, May, September, October. Is there anything that you've targeted over the years when you're sitting on the tractor bouncing around going, we're going to do that?

[Dufault] Well, just yeah, take off for a long weekend or something. But you know, again, PBS, those Viking voyages. Yeah, yeah, I've got a couple catalogs sitting around here. So, my wife's always been a big Egyptian nut, so it's like, let's take a Nile River cruise. Let's see what that's like. I know, I've heard from people that have done this and they're just fantastic. And so some of that kind of stuff, you know, a wintertime drive around, see the, see the country a little more.

[Yeager] Well, I appreciate it. Thank you so much, Tim, for your insight. and I always appreciate I always look for when I see a question coming from you. And we can because it's just, again, it's important to you to have a different perspective than they do in southern Illinois than they do in, in Minnesota or in southern Minnesota and Wisconsin. That is the beauty of what we do anyway. And so I'm always glad that, you know, helping us out. I greatly appreciate it more.

[Dufault] My pleasure. I like reading those questions from the other people that don't get on the air because it's like, oh, yeah, that's a darn good question, you know? Yeah, I hope they ask that one too. So, well, we'll see some good ideas.

[Yeager] Some of them we might ask some day. We might actually ask all of them and get our all of us in trouble. Because some of those analysts, they don't. I'll read them. I don't know if I've ever told you this. I'll read most of the questions. I don't read them before the show. I only tell them the one during the show. I'm like, hey, this one's a little different than normal. I'm going to read the question. but those ones and plus I will kind of say, you want to talk about this, you're okay with this? Yep. And then I'll get the no. On uncertain ones for whatever reason. Just they might not know something about it. Hadn't done the research or they don't want to touch it with a ten foot pole. So you just never know what you're going to get.

[Dufault] Right? Gotcha.

[Yeager] All right. Tim, thank you so much.

[Dufault] All right. You bet. Paul, have a good day.

[Yeager] Thank you very much for watching. New episodes come out each and every Tuesday from Market to Market and the MToM podcast. Thanks for watching. Bye bye.