Tackling rootworm at the ground level with sustainable pest control - Keegan Shields

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[Yeager] Hello everyone. I'm Paul Yeager. This is the MToM podcast, a production of Iowa PBS and the Market to Market TV show. This week we are going to get a little sciency but also a little technology. We're going to mix up a natural response to rootworm and a company that is trying to build itself from the ground up that started in New York, has roots in Texas, and now is based in Iowa. I had a chance meeting with Keegan Shields a few weeks ago, and we had a great conversation that night, and we're going to continue it now and actually record the discussion. We're going to find out what his company, Persistent BioControl, is all about. How it started. It has roots at Cornell University in Ithaca, New York. And he's going to talk about, his growing up with his father and the work that he did going from farm to farm, doing research, and how that led to a response for, using nematodes and specifically getting rid of Rootworm. So way more agriculture heavy than normal. But this is absolutely something we all should kind of know about what's going on with producers around us. That is what our topic is today. If you have any feedback for me, send me an email at Paul Yeager at Iowa, pbs.org. New episodes of this podcast come out each and every Tuesday. Now let's get to Keegan for this discussion. I did give you a hard time about your dress, but have you gotten used to Midwest winters yet? I mean, you did grow up in New York, so you do know cold, but just a tiny bit of time in Texas will thin someone's blood.

[Shields] Yeah, yeah, that was a long time ago. that was 20 years ago. I. I went in the Marine Corps when I was 17, and I was in all warm places, so I basically lost any kind of cold tolerance.

[Yeager] Is that because the army's in the cold places? The Marines just get the hot stuff?

[Shields] Yeah, yeah. Beaches. And, you know, on the coast.

[Yeager] Yeah, not the coast. You grew up in upstate New York, Ithaca. Right?

[Shields] Yep, yep. My, so, our, our company, our, our technology is based on research my father did at, Cornell University. So, there were a lot of fun summers, free labor, you know, helping out with that stuff, which I appreciate now that I'm a parent, you know, and, yeah, tired kids are better behaved.

[Yeager] So they are, right? Yeah. your dad was, professor there or researcher at at, at the university.

[Shields] Yeah. he spent 36 years there. He's an entomologist, by training. And, he was an extension, for 36 years and also research. So, you know, he likes to say his students were the farmers of New York. And, I think they had a great partnership over his career.

[Yeager] Did you have any thought that you were going to enter that you're not you're in the family business, but not exactly in the family business?

[Shields] Yeah. No, I never expected it. I mean, like, I went in the Marine Corps early and then got out with in the business world and, and I think like a lot of veterans, you get out of the military, you kind of it's very mission and value driven and you get in the business world and everything seems to be kind of shades of gray. So when, when we came up with the idea for this company, I thought it might be a good opportunity to do some good. And and it's kind of the next phase of the research that he did, while at Cornell.

[Yeager] And, and, so you, you go into the Marines and did you then go to UT and, and in Austin or is that and what were you studying there?

[Shields] Yeah, I did my undergrad at the Naval Academy, so I enlisted, went to the Naval Academy, went back in the Marine Corps, so made the same mistake twice. and then, after I got out, I got my masters at, at UT in technology commercialization, which is, you know, this tiny corner of the business world where, you take some lab technology and try and build a business out of it, having no idea that this is what I would end up doing. Around that time, my father was thinking about retiring, and and we were sitting over, Thanksgiving dinner, kind of catching up, five years ago, and, and, that's where I kind of pitched him and convinced him to come over to the dark side and in business and and, this is the best way to, to really get this technology that he discovered, for the farmers of New York and really make it available to farmers across the Midwest.

[Yeager] Did he ever try to recruit you into academia?

[Shields] No. He warned me.

[Yeager] No. Okay. He warned you. Got it. So you did the recruiting of getting him into business. Then?

[Shields] Yeah. And I think, you know, the work wasn't done, but I think a lot of your audience is an ag. We'll kind of know about that kind of gravitational pull that pulls you back into kind of this world and, it, it we didn't want this technology to go sit on a shelf somewhere and, and not I think it can, can have quite a big benefit, you know, for the farmers that we work with.

[Yeager] Now, the technology, when you say you were digging in the cornfield, and you were looking at what exactly were some of those early things that you were doing as part of this whole let's let's help dad.

[Shields] Yeah. so in, corn Rootworm was the focus of a lot of that research. And in the summer, you go dig corn roots to kind of score, the roots. So you've got to go dig all these things up. His lab also took about half a million soil samples, over the life of the technology. So, helping out with that and then, you know, just trying to divide and conquer with the kids. And, you know, I would go with him during the summertime and drive around wonder for wonderful, New York. Just what a kid wants to do.

[Yeager] Yeah. You know, the other guys are on bikes in the pool. I'm in the truck with dad, digging in the dirt, and that's, kind of how that all works.

[Shields] Yeah, I get what the deal? The deal was, I could sit in the truck and it would take longer, or I could get out and help, and then we could get home faster. So, I think I.

[Yeager] I've heard that trick.

[Shields] I might use that with my. Yeah, yeah.

[Yeager] Yeah. So then persistent bio control is the name of the company, and it's it's you. You're it. What? Why the name and why do this on your own? Why not go work for somebody that's already kind of in this field, doing what you're doing?

[Shields] Yeah. so persistence. kind of our key innovation is, is, I guess I'll back up. So we sell, these microscopic worms called nematodes. They live in the soil, and they attack soil. Insect. and that was the solution for this invasive pest that's only in northern New York. it's only in four counties. It's what my father worked on for 30 years. And these nematodes will will seek out soil, insect pests, kill them and then reproduce. So it's this really cool, natural, self-replicating system that we've figured out how to harness for farmers. what was your question again? Sorry.

[Yeager] Well, my question is just, you know, well, a you just kind of gave me the overview of the company and how this works, but, it's not is it? That when you say it's only four counties in New York, I believe last time I let me look at my notes here. Yeah. real worms everywhere. So what's different about, those four counties in New York versus the rest of the area?

[Shields] So, he kind of my father kind of stumbled on to the fact that this works in Rootworm. the original research is for a different insect. but once we figured out said, oh, we could help farmers across the Midwest with root worm problems. now it's I think it's something worth commercializing. So there's a lot of different soil insects that these microscopic worms will, will go after and control. We have a seven year continuous study and root worm basically looking at control through rotation and, and, after going after root worm. So corn's really our first market that we're going into. it's what we're most familiar with. But, it's really just the first market.

[Yeager] Corn in Texas and the way it's grown. And even I shouldn't just say corn, but some crops in some states, there is no rotation. It is the same thing year after year after year. when you mentioned rotation, does it mean something different down there than it does, where you're seeing it's, seated today?

[Shields] yeah, a lot of, a lot of the farmers we work with are corn on corn for going back 20 years. Right. They don't they don't rotate. And that's really stressed out. we've put a lot of pressure on the rootworm traits that are the current solution. the farmers in New York are mostly dairy farmers. so it's, four year alfalfa, corn rotation. So it's a little easier. But. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we work with some guy that Nebraska and, northern, southern Minnesota that I think a big corn on corn for like 50 years on irrigation or, you know, rain fed. So and a lot of the guys we work with are, they're corn on corn because they're feeding some type of livestock. Right. So I think they're, they they couldn't afford not to, to rotate. Right. Because they needed to feed, their livestock.

[Yeager] Yeah. You got to grow. What's in the you got to grow what's needed to to feed those animals that are coming in and out of the barn twice a day. if it's in a dairy situation or if it's just in a cattle operation. So it does create, because what's the I mean, again, not everybody that listens or watches. This is an agro in, day to day farming. So rootworm traits you mentioned that is sometimes in, in the trade of the seed to, to get rid of the rootworm.

[Shields] Yeah. It's the current solution. the seed companies have figured out how to insert a gene from a bacteria into the corn plant so that the plant produces, bt toxin, which is not is harmful to rootworm. what we're seeing are widespread resistance to these toxins. So we've we've, listeners may be familiar with herbicide tolerant weeds, insecticide tolerant, insects. And now we've got, these trait tolerant rootworm, there's been a big shift over the last five years. Five years ago, we had trouble, getting people to admit there was a problem, but but, you know, people were kind of hush hush about it. but now I think it's got more widespread problems. Worse. so it's really about using every tool in the toolbox, to try and control rootworm. And that's what the nematodes really provide, is they'll come in as an independent, mode of action and, and kill off all those resistance survivors, that would normally make it to adulthood and cause more, rootworm pressure and damage. And it's something that, you only have to apply once.

[Yeager] Once over. How long?

[Shields] so our data goes back 30 years. so, you know, the lawyers won't let me say forever, but, you know, a long time more the more than one year, which, again, that starts to make us sound a little snake oily. Right. but we've got we've got the data, and, I think this year we crossed 100,000 acres, have been treated, with these persistent nematodes, about 65,000, are in New York and the rest across the Midwest. So this is the largest bio control. program that I know of, across the most acres.

[Yeager] And. Okay, the snake oil thing, we'll let that one pass. We might go back to that in a minute, but I want to get into, where you're seeded first because that kind of, I think explains, part of your last answer. You are in, a facility in central Iowa, right? Right. Can you say where you're at?

[Shields] Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we're south of Webster City. we're setting up this winter our first large scale production facility. when it's all up and running, we'll be able to do about 100,000 acres of nematodes a year. so we're looking to scale up and, and so far each year we've sold out. So, you know, my hope is that we'll sell out again this year. But we should have probably 20 to 30,000 acres ready for the spring. kind of our spring sales cycle.

[Yeager] And so each I mean, I'm it looks like, the way I can see it, like a little air conditioner unit above your head, and and those are individual. They almost look like freezers of sorts. Is that, coolers? Is that fair? Modules?

[Shields] Yeah. Yeah, I say grow rooms, but, you know, I've, I call them grow rooms, but the basic process, since there are insect attacking only we use insects to, to grow them. So we go pick up, insects from our suppliers. we do our thing and then stick them in these grow rooms for a set amount of time. And it's a biological process. So we want to keep a constant, temperature, constant humidity, you know, kind of a controlled environment. And once they're ready to come out, we've kind of hit peak, nematode production. we pull them out and send them down the assembly line and then separate them. We've got these machines we've developed that separate the nematodes from all the gunk and stuff, the insect parts and the things they grow in. And then, we put them in long term storage once we separate them from that, and. And then they're ready to go, for delivery. about the end of April is when we usually start delivering for, for,

[Yeager] So you are doing the delivery. It's not. You are sending it to somewhere else. you are going to Farmer Johnson, and here's your order. Then what happens?

[Shields] Yeah. You can't because they're alive. you can't just stick them in the mail, right? It's, we we don't trust anybody to keep them alive yet. We got to figure all that out. But right now, we're delivering everything in person. and that way we can talk with the farmer. Kind of. We've talked through application. delivery comes, they come in a solution. And so either the farmer provides one of those big, IBC totes that you see on farms, or we provide the tote sometimes for big orders. And, it comes in solution and we basically give them the formula like, hey, it's, you know, one gallon per five acres. and then they're applied just like any other, input with, your ground sprayer. So no, no special equipment needed. yeah. And it's a one time, one time application.

[Yeager] And forgive me because science is not my specialty really at all. Keegan. But, when you played with the sprayer, I mean, so that makes it. What's that?

[Shields] Oh, it's not my. Not my specialty either. Science.

[Yeager] Okay. Well, good. That's fine. but it sounds like when you say put out with the sprayer, that's how big these nematodes are. I mean, they are basically water. or or like pellets, like, you know, pellet size, I guess.

[Shields] so we deliver them in this solution, and then the farmer mixes them with water, in their sprayer, and then, you know, puts them on. We use, these, fertilizer stream nozzles. So you can imagine a solid stream going down on the ground, and that's enough, moisture to get the nematodes down into the soil. And, once there. And is this in enough quantity, they take it from there.

[Yeager] Is this done at planting or in, like, June? Well, after the plant has emerged and, you know, maybe is in, you know, V5 or something or above.

[Shields] so for the farmers that are skeptical, which is, you know, a lot of our new customers, we get them, we tell them I put it on in the month of May. And so they can see maximum first year impact. the actual application window is really wide. So any time May to September, you know, you could put them on, any time the soil temperatures above 50 Fahrenheit. So the farmers that are convinced and they're kind of finishing up doing their whole farm, they like to apply in the fall when it's a bit less crazy than the spring.

[Yeager] And then does this cycle through? I think you can't say forever. but a long term product, if I take this field and put it to beans next year, do I just wipe out that application? And in two years, when I go back to corn, do I have to reapply? How does that work?

[Shields] yeah. So, this was developed for those dairy farms with a four year corn alfalfa rotation. So we've got a ton of data that these survive any kind of rotation. And if you're rotating, like, let's say you rotate in a wheat, they'll provide a benefit, like, they'll go after wire worms when you're in your wheat, and then you'll switch back to corn so they will persist across rotations. And a lot of data that shows, probably our most extreme example is, Roswell, New Mexico. So the most different from New York, it's very hot, very harsh, under irrigation down there. and we've got persistence going on six years now. So we go back every year and sample that field. That's kind of our extreme test case.

[Yeager] Wow. That is just a that's crazy. But when okay, I'll ask this now why Webster City? Because in that area, from what I know. Yeah, there's some corn on corn on corn, but not a ton. It is much more of a rotation. It sounds like you belong more in Wisconsin or in Kansas or something like that.

[Shields] so, Iowa, I know nobody in Nebraska would admit this, but I think I was is kind of, Silicon Valley of AG. You know, there's a lot of really cool stuff going on here. So we always wanted to, to move here and kind of be in the mix of it. and it puts us really close to our suppliers, our suppliers are also in the Midwest. So, and also obviously close to all our customers. So we're kind of centrally located. We're a couple hours from everywhere, and we've got access to, a couple of main highways too, which helps.

[Yeager] How do I know this thing is?

[Shields] This is a great city.

[Yeager] Oh, yeah. Absolutely it is. I'm very familiar with Webster City. So sorry I cut you off. I jump that one. I guess I'll just ask, you know why? How do I know this thing is working?

[Shields] so if you want to know what your. If you if persistence is happening, we can come take soil samples and bioassay them. That's kind of how the how the research tracks, whether there's these worms that you can't see with the naked eye in your soil, we go out and take a standard soil core and then test it for nematodes. We actually throw in some insects and see if they die and then see what comes out of them to kind of determine if the nematodes are what killed them. but also, you can really see the impact when you walk the field, in, in the summer. And also you can see it on your yield monitor when you're, when you're harvesting. So, our kind of, our best sales tool has been, we'll sell you 60 acres at half price, and then you can try it on your farm and see if we're full of it. Right. we tell guys, take your worst rootworm field. You treat half of it with bio control and methods and then kind of measure in the fall and see, see what kind of, you know, recovery you get. And I would say that the people that take us up on it, they usually come back and buy more.

[Yeager] So yeah, I'm guessing that's I was going to say I'm guessing by the nature of the size of what's behind you, there must be some happy customers who want to buy, buy again and expand. Double or triple that 60 acres.

[Shields] Yeah. Yeah, definitely. and our biggest challenge is trying to get find a farmer who wants to try it in an area. You know, the kind of the pattern we've seen is once 1 or 2 farmers try and tell their neighbors that this is that was really sold farmer to farmer. And because, you know, it sounds a little bit crazy. It's a little bit outside, the normal. But I think if we can deliver, just a ton of value for the farmers, then, you know, we could do some good and and help them out.

[Yeager] Well, you mentioned the Iowa farmer or the Iowa farm, landscape is that of research and trying something new, which means nearly every farmer's had somebody come knock on their door, pull into the yard and try to sell them something over the years. What? Where do you how do you clear that skepticism that's just naturally built up in us? in this state?

[Shields] Well, we've got we've got a bit of, track record. So if this was just me showing up with no data, like, I wouldn't buy this from me, right? I don't have any credibility. so I think kind of our scientific pedigree helps, and at least gets us in the door, right? Like, hey, give it a try. See if it works on your farm, and then, you know, tell it, tell a neighbor if you're happy with it and help us spread the word.

[Yeager] Yeah, that makes sense. And I know of products I have purchased before. I'll say I don't see you advertised and like, we don't have to our customers do it for us. I'm not saying that, I've not seen your advertisement at Hilton Coliseum or something like that in a big, big like listening to cyclone Radio, you always hear whatever farm product. You're not a, you're not a point where you can handle that scale, but B word of mouth is those are your disciples. I guess.

[Shields] Yeah. I mean, we had, we had an event this spring where one of our early customers, stood up, older gentleman who is a hog farmer, and he looked at the room. Everybody knew him. And he's like, hey, guys, I know this is crazy, but it works. It really works. And he sat down and I was like, you can't, all of the spending and marketing you want. And like, that guy did more for that room than anything I would ever say. So it it, I think the people that adopted and tried are believers and that's I mean, honestly, we don't have a marketing budget, so that helps.

[Yeager] You are getting what major corporations pay for when it comes to influencers. I mean, that's that's what they are for you.

[Shields] Yeah. Yeah. All these local influencers before, we knew to call them influencers. Right. I think there's. Yeah, there's usually a group in every community of innovative farmers that are really curious about what's the new technology is they want to try it. And I think a lot of people look to them, to see kind of as a testing ground.

[Yeager] Let's go to the, the, the natural side of this or the, the, the biology that's involved. Because we're in an environment as we look at a new, administration that has, a couple of nominees that are maybe going to completely uproot a lot of things, that we traditionally think of as is working as successful and natural or non-chemical or non-GMO has potential. Is are you a non-GMO product? I guess, I guess I don't know if you can even classify it.

[Shields] Yeah. We're, so we source our nematodes from nature. they're native to, to New York. That's where they were isolated from. And, we're we're certified for, we work with a lot of organic farmers, in different markets, a lot of root crop farmers, in the northeast and in Canada that are growing sweet potatoes, turnips, that sort of thing. Those are those farms tend to be a lot smaller. And so you have to work a lot harder to convince somebody for something that's maybe 20 acres. So that's why we've kind of started with corn. we've got better data. if you've got a grower you can convince, it's got a couple thousand acres, then, that's that's helpful. But, yeah, definitely, we want to get into that market. I think it's all about capacity. You know, it's it's a few people. We're looking to hire some employees, but, we've got all these adjacent markets that we want to break into eventually, when there's time in adjacent.

[Yeager] You mean other crops?

[Shields] Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Other crops. Okay, okay. Sorry. I, I went, I went and treated my, my neighbor's rosebushes, which were getting destroyed by black vine weevil, like, you know, for years, you see the decline, right? And all the damage. And I think I put about an acres worth of nematodes on her, like 3 or 4 rosebushes. And there's not going to be a problem there. Next year.

[Yeager] Well, maybe that's the issue with the raspberries I have back here. Maybe they have really might be producing. You know, I hadn't even thought about that. That that could be, what's in play. what's exciting about this for you, Keegan.

[Shields] Mark and Melissa. Or you could stop by. We'll give you some room on your rest for. Sorry. So that question.

[Yeager] Again, what's what's next? I mean, you talk about expansion in adjacent, markets, but, you know, is this just something that is growing for corn more important than growing to other parts of other crops or other commodities?

[Shields] Well, I think, corn is really our beachhead market. You know, it's something we know very well. so we're going to try and grow attraction and and grow, with the corn market and then kind of bring these, these other markets online. and then I think eventually we'll, we'll probably get into the consumer market, you know, it's kind of smaller, smaller form factor packaging. I think there's quite a lot of interest from. So I'm very passionate people are gardeners and I can't grow anything to save my life. But, I know a lot of gardeners who I've given nematodes to just to help them out. So there's quite a big, insect pressure initiative. And soil insects are really the hardest problem in egg, right? You can't spray anything to get rid of them because they're in the ground. They're really hard to get to. so I think this has the potential to really revolutionize kind of how we go after those soil.

[Yeager] Well, and there is a push back on using sprays, in some, in some, corners of agriculture in some neighbors. so this if you can sell them a natural alternative, I think you certainly perk up the ears of, of many folks. I'm guessing that's something you I mean, I mean, you got a lot of things you got to do, but is that something you watch and monitor?

[Shields] Yeah, absolutely. I, I, I didn't think it was going to be a big selling point for the farmers and corn. But as these, GMO traits have run into trouble. We've had the farmers have had to go back and you start using soil insecticides again, which are our hazmat. they're definitely carcinogenic, right. There's a lot of other issues. And, you know, your repeated exposure to farmers over 30 years, I think they've watched their parents or the older generation, you know, get sick and they're not enthused about having to go back and use these toxic products that they they may have been around when they were a kid. So this is not only a cost saving, you don't have to use soil insecticide anymore. You're also not having to expose yourself to that. So, quite a few people have come up to me and, and talked about that, which, you know, I don't have a lot of experience with farmers. But, you know, for me, as an outsider, it was unexpected.

[Yeager] Do you get the sense that there be a little bit of experimentation by some growers that may be in a spot? We'll just use your home state of Texas that might have 5 or 6 crops. Just because of the way the calendar works. They could say, I'm going to try it here. Keegan didn't say as, okay, but I'm going to try and see. I mean, do you know of experimental growers that are that are trying different things with this product?

[Shields] Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, we kind of give them the guardrails and then and then turn them loose. Most of our acres were applied with sprayers. But we've had farmers try all sorts of sorts of ways. So we give them the recommendation, we know they're going to go off and test, you know, different things. But we're there for support. We say usually we tell them, like, apply it the way we say, the first time, and that way, you know, it works. And then I'm happy to sell you as many nematodes as you want. If you want to try all these other ways that, you know, mix them with manure and mix them with the fertilizer. You know, all these other things we say, it's not really a great idea.

[Yeager] But that's research. And it might not be official research like it, like it would be at Cornell or or at a university. But it is. Farmers are very much big into trial and error and seeing if something works. They're like, I've seen this. How about if I do this because they're looking for ways to because every farm is different. Every field is different. Yeah.

[Shields] Yep. Yeah. I think that's another thing I didn't have a great appreciation for is how much farming varies across the country and all these different, cropping systems. So I always try and ask, you know, in your area, like, what's your best practice? And we know that this technology fits in really well. but, you know, it may be a different time of year. Is less busy for you, under irrigation. So the farmers out in western Nebraska, eastern Colorado, they apply nematodes through, the year with the irrigation water. Right. So they're able to get over their corn much later than maybe a farmer in Iowa. So I'm always learning I think that.

[Yeager] Well, and I'm always I'm, I'm always learning when I have somebody that deals with farmers from other areas, not just their own neck of the woods. But I always ask this about, you know, is there anything that, it sounds like you just answered my question. Anything that binds, a farmer from New York, from Texas, from Nebraska to Iowa to Minnesota, is there anything other than ingenuity and, that ties them together?

[Shields] I think they're all eternal optimist. You know, I don't. I don't know that I would make it as a farmer, but it's but. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's basically the same person, you know, all the way across.

[Yeager] Yeah. Yeah. That glass is always, half full. But then they're also thinking it's half empty too, at the same time because it's never going to rain. The market's never going to rebound. But I'm still going to plant anyway. Come.

[Shields] That's right. That's what I do.

[Yeager] All right, Keegan, I appreciate your time. thank you so much for the insight. It's just fascinating to learn what's what's being out there. And, thank you for the mini tour of what you have behind you.

[Shields] Yeah, yeah. Anybody that wants to stop by, we'll give you the nickel tour and I appreciate the time.

[Yeager] Hi, everybody. I'm Paul, this is...

[Julie Kunutson]

Actually, this is the end of the podcast where it's my time to shine. And Paul, I'm taking over here for a minute.

[Yeager] Well, it's about time. I've been waiting for this for a long time. This is much more fun to be the guest, is it? Well, we'll find out.

[Knutson]] Okay. We totally just made this up as we're going to do this right now, so on the spot. I'm not in this role ever. You're always the one that's having to come up with the questions and think and talk at the same time. Not an easy task, but why do you love doing this so much?

[Yeager] Oh, I don't know. because I'm in control. I get to talk. I always the Yeager family, we are professional talkers, but I'm the only one that gets paid to do it.

[Knutson]] You use that bit too many times. I bet anybody listening to this podcast right now has already heard that. Okay. So Fridays.

[Yeager] Yeah.

[Knutson]] Friday we do two shows. Yeah. Iowa Press, Market to Market. You are involved with both of those in the capacity a little bit more. So with Market would you say. I guess you're the face. Yeah. so Iowa Press, what do you do for Iowa Press?

[Yeager] I am the live tweeter. So that means I sit and listen to the show and I say, this guest said that I not return, hit this guest. And so I kind of like, basically make notes during the show and say, and if you want to watch the show, be sure to check out our social channels and it'll be on at 730 tonight on Iowa PBS.

[Knutson]] Do you get a lot of likes, feedback or like responses at all?

[Yeager] I don't look at those.

[Knutson]] You don't look at them. That's probably… 

[Yeager] I am not the producer of the show. I'm doing what I've been told, I'm more responsible for the tweets of Market, and I keep an eye on those. but I just we're not putting out inflammatory statements, trying to draw clicks. We're not doing that for either show, but for press. I'm just there to kind of inform it. This is what is said.

[Knutson]] Well, versus market, where we actually ask people to say, hey, send us a tweet or message on social or email, and we want to interact with you and we'll reply to your question on air. So that's one of the things that we actually do different and market than we do press. So press from our technical side. We check in with you guys to see if you need any help with anything.

[Yeager] Which is usually most of the time.

[Knutson]] Which is most of the time, which is why we have to check in with you so frequently. So then after the press is over, what do you do to prepare for Market?

[Yeager] I'm still writing the script at this point. I'm also compiling the social media questions. I'm having my boss look over both of those to see if they make sense. What I've said, to make sure there's no misspellings, which usually it still slips by us both. We have to fix that in the control room. Hey, did you mean to say this?

[Yeager] I think that happens quite often. Does? Yeah, and that's one of those conversations that happens in the control room quite often of. Oh, seriously, Paul.

[Knutson]] Yeah. Because we can hear you reading the prompter in the control room. And I'll say, wait, what did he just say? Did he really mean to say there's that really another alliteration or sports reference or a bad pun. Those are your favorite aren't they.

[Yeager] I, I don't even know what you're talking about. Sports references, bad puns. Sure. Play on words. Yes. So yeah I, I'm in the middle of writing and then I'm getting, content ready in the sense of what I'm going to say or what somebody else is going to say. You are involved with what we're going to see and hear. Right?

[Knutson]] So while you're doing that, we're flipping this set from Iowa Press to market to market and getting that ready to go. So that 230 comes around. You can stand in front of the camera, read the prompter, hopefully by the to that time we're not making as many changes.

[Yeager] Yeah, I'm trying to I practice I do a lot of lifting of my eyebrow to, you know, make sure because that's the that's what they teach you. An anchor school that in the hair.

[Knutson]] The of course those are the.

[Yeager] Two things. And your voice you're supposed to talk as low as you can.

[Knutson]] Well, clearly I was not made for that role whatsoever. Okay. So we get through market, we've recorded market, we finish up, we then go back to the edit booth to get everything ready to go closed captioning wise, sometimes if there's like a fix of any kind, not of content but of technical nature. If they're like you say, we didn't catch that misspelling, we need to fix that and post anything like that. We finish our exports and then we check in with you guys one last time to say, what else do you need, Paul?

[Yeager] Well, and so I look and see oh I have that transcript. Wait a minute. It doesn't separate speakers I need to say needs to say Mark Gold and Paul Yeager. Can you redo that or. I don't see the export of the marketplace.

[Knutson]] It's there. Did you look in the right folder?

[Yeager] Oh, and then I didn't look in the right folder. So again it's a lot of back and forth.

[Knutson]] Yep.

[Yeager] And we're all try and we're looking at that clock going please let us get out of here soon.

[Knutson]] Yep. I mean because we all want to go home. Right. It's the weekend. But it is fun to do television in that way versus when you're out in the field and just shooting little bits here and there like to actually feel like, oh gosh, we we put together a half an hour show today.

[Yeager] And you really never wanted to be on television.

[Knutson]] Really never did.

[Yeager] I think you did a really good job. Thanks, Julie.

[Knutson]] Well thank you Paul.

[Yeager] Right. Can I do my end, I guess, or do you want to do it? Can you? Do you know what I don't?

[Knutson]] Okay. 

[Yeager] If you have more.

[Knutson]] Blah blah blah blah.

[Yeager] Email blah blah blah talk over the guest blah blah blah. So some things never change. Yeah, I nailed it. If you have an idea for a segment that we can do as we explore all the technical sides and content sides of market to market, send me an email market to market at Iowa PBS right there on the screen.

[Yeager] We will be back next Tuesday with another installment of the podcast. And you just never know when we're going to do one of these tech talks. We'll see you next time. Bye bye.

Contact: Paul.yeager@iowapbs.org