Farming in Ukraine during war - Kees Huizinga

Paul Yeager: Well Hi everybody. I'm Paul Yeager welcome inside the MtoM Show studio podcast II. I will be back in that very soon with a couple of guests that we hope that you like. But today, we are going global, we're going to go to Ukraine, we are going to talk to a farmer who is living life a whole lot different in 2022 at the end than they did at the beginning, Kees Huizinga is our guest, we'll start with the correct pronunciation, his story, how he ended up in Ukraine. He's not native, but he certainly adopted his country as he calls it, my country. A note, something happened in the middle of this interview that I've never had, and it absolutely highlights what is going on and what he is dealing with. So you're gonna have to click and listen to the full episode here, as we discuss some global politics about what's happening for him his story, I asked him if he feels like he's gonna get in a little bit of trouble for doing some of these interviews. And when I mean, interviews, ours, I'm not saying that that's going to get him into trouble. But he was recently on a panel at the Borlaug Dialogues, that's how we came across him to understand to learn more about what life is like there and what he's trying to do and grow. And just trying to still have that market. That doesn't exist right now, the exports are a whole heck of a lot harder than they used to be, than they were before the end of February. So that is what we're going to do today. Heavy politics in the sense of Ukraine. That's what we're going to talk about in this installment of the M to M Show podcast. First question, pronounce your last name for me. I want to make sure I get that right.

Kees Huizinga: Huizinga.

Paul Yeager : So. is that native to where?

Kees: The Netherlands? Yeah.

Paul: Are you native to the Netherlands?

Kees Huizinga: Yes. It's not Ukrainian.

Paul Yeager: How'd you end up in Ukraine then?

Kees Huizinga: Farming. I mean, when I started here in 2013, still, I think more than half of the country was, was fallow land, came out of the Soviet Union only like 10 years before. And they didn't have money to do farming. So we could start cheaply, and maybe add these huge fields of this black soil or bare soil in the world. And we decided that it was a good place for farming. So and that's how we started.

Paul Yeager: It seems like a pretty bold move to move to an entire different country to do farming.

Kees Huizinga: Yeah, but I have two partners. And they, they already, they are a little bit older than I am. And they went to Eastern Germany in the beginning of the 90s. As soon as they dropped the Iron Curtain, or the German wall came down. So they will and they, one of them was in Poland, and the other one was in the Czech Republic as well. So they already had the experience. And I myself, I did an internship in Russia, and it worked a little bit in Russia and afterwards in Poland. So you know, I also kind of knew the world, of this side of the world. Let's call it like this. And yeah, I wasn't too, Too bad. No, it was okay, actually.

Paul Yeager: So then how many years? When did you come to Ukraine?

Kees Huizinga: January 2003.

Paul Yeager: Okay, so you're approaching 20 years?

Kees Huizinga: Yes, yeah. Yeah.

Paul Yeager: What has changed in that, in those two decades for you, and in that country of Ukraine?

Kees Huizinga: Ukraine was really going uphill. And when I came here, Ukraine was producing like 25 million tonnes of grains and oil seeds per year. And now last year, we were around 100 tonnes, 100 million tonnes per year. So in less than 20 years, we fourfolded our production. You know, yeah. And as I said, 20 years ago, half of the land was fallow, and now we're fighting about every acre. So which is good, I guess, in a way. Yeah. And I mean, the whole logistics improved, the export capacity improved, the ports improved, you know, the yields improved machines. I mean, everything's changed and we had this revolution, the Orange Revolution 2004, when people stood up against corrupted elections, you know, and, and ever since, we have had freedom of press here in Ukraine, and then when there's Yanukovych guy was a president, He was, he was suppressing people again. So we had another revolution in 2014. And then the war started, of course, in the east. You know, but So, throughout those 20 years, we, we have always had freedom of press, and so in the people, were also free in their minds. You know, I had refugees here from Kazakhstan, for example, from the originate from Kazakhstan, they, they lived in the east of Ukraine, and they had to flee for the war. And they spent a week here, before they moved further west. And they said, when we came here from Kazakhstan, 10 years ago, we really felt the freedom of the Ukrainian people. They said, how do you compare it to Kazakh people from Kazakhstan, or Russia or Bella Russia, they are not free, they live in a police state. And they say, here in Ukraine, I can, I can swear and shout and call the president all kinds of names aesthetical standing would have ended up in jail for three years. You know, so. And so that's those things I have really experienced as well over the last 20 years.

Paul Yeager: Well, and growing up in the Netherlands to you're used to freedoms, that wasn't different for you to go to Ukraine, you were used to being able to do lots of those things, right.

Kees Huizinga: Yeah, but I've always had felt a freedom here in your brain, you know, of course, a little bit more rope in rough than in the Netherlands and a little bit more bold. But, I mean, there's a lot of young people who came into into business into government into all kinds of things, you know, and they were really pushing the country to modern country, you know, and it's we of course, we need time. But the progress was there, and maybe two steps forward and one step back, or one and a half step back. So that that's what that's how it was going.

Paul Yeager: What the resistance to grow fourfold? You said land was put into production that had been fallow, there'd been improvements in many other areas, fertilizer, seed genetics, whatever. What was the opposition? And why wasn't that land used before?

Kees Huizinga: All until the the record is the fall of the Soviet Union, or the breakup of the Soviet Union. It was all cultivated, probably. Well, I guess actually, towards the end of Soviet Union, things were also kind of falling apart. Because it was just bankrupt. And then throughout the 90s, you know, people they came out of this plan economy and everything regulated from the from top down from the state. And then people had to take our own initiative and run their businesses in a in a capitalistic way. And of course, they didn't really know how to do this. And some people did, you know, some, some didn't in. So they kind of lost it in it kind of slowly fell apart. And they didn't have diesel for the tractors or they didn't have spare parts for the tractors, they didn't have money to buy it. I mean, it was going in a negative circle downwards, or the negative spiral downwards. Yeah, so. And then in the beginning of the 2000s, yeah, half of the lynn to bear. And you know, you create with only exporting like 25 million tonnes, it's less, it's less than a tonne per hectare. So I mean, for in, I can't, I don't know what it is, and bushels per acre, but it's really, really, really low.

Paul Yeager: Yeah. Are you concerned that that Ukraine is headed back to what it was in the early 2000s? If things continue as they have since February?

Kees Huizinga: No, I'm not sure. No, I don't think so. But we are certainly aware will be thrown back many, many years in time, of course. But it all depends on the export through the Black Sea. Now, if there's the Russians, they are, I mean, they are terrorists. Now they are they're damaging civilian infrastructure. And today I was visiting a town close by a look at a pumping station for water and for heating and stuff. It's all dependent on electricity and the Russians, they're shooting and the electricity stations, you know, so all that stuff doesn't work if there's no electricity. And if they start bombing the infrastructure in the ports on the Black Sea. Yeah, I mean, that takes years and years. I mean, it says it only takes a few bumps to destroy it, and it takes years and years to rebuild it, you know, and that's, I mean, that's really going to be an issue then if we can, because 90% of our export, went through the Black Sea. You know, and you can't replace this by road or by rail. So I'm kind of worried. But on the other side, you know, if they wanted to destroy, they would have destroyed already. Some time ago, you know, so...

Paul Yeager: Do you think that if it's not exported? I mean, does it end up somewhere else? Does it waste? Does it go in? Do they take it by rail to Russia? I don't know how the logistics work.

Kees Huizinga: Yeah, that is, then farmers have to adjust, you know, and find other ways or grow other crops? I mean, of everything in the occupied areas. The Russians, they stole everything. Yeah, so they can they they'll just bring it by train or by truck to Russia and export it like it's from their own ports

Paul Yeager: Right. Stamp it made in Russia not made in Ukraine. Yeah.

Kees Huizinga: Yeah. And put a sticker on it made in Russia. And but yeah, and the rest of Ukraine, partly they will export it by train and in by truck. And the the railroad connections through Poland are, they're working on improvements. And through Romania. They're working on improvements. But it's also a project of years and years. You don't change it overnight. Right. Yeah. And governments are working on easier documentation for trucks with grain driving out of Ukraine. But that's also a bureaucratic headache. You can't imagine. And, but, you know, Ukraine is normally exports, like 60 million tons of grain and oil seeds. And Poland produces around 30 million tonnes per year. In Romania, like 27 million tons per year. So, you know, if we, in the biggest country through which our export could go by road or by rail, you know, and then but if we have to export 30 million through Poland, 30 million through Romania, I mean, then we are doubling the amount they have to handle. It can nobody know? I mean, it's impossible because you don't you don't have to be, you don't have to make a calculation. It's just physically impossible to do so. And I mean, to change that infrastructure or to enlarge it. I mean, it takes years.

Paul Yeager: Yeah, 5%, 10% but not double. And you're talking about doubling. Exactly, tripling in some cases. I had a question that somebody wanted me to ask you and I've always had this concern, What was it like farming in 2022? I mean do you feel safe out in the fields?

Kees Huizinga: In the beginning like as of February 24th, first, two, three weeks we we still kind of were panicking, you know and didn't know what happening didn't know what to expect. I mean, I've never had bombs falling on my country. So you don't know where they're dropping you know, you know, and you don't know where they are aiming. You know, but after like three, four weeks you kind of get used to it. And then you start to see how it works you know, and I mean a country is so huge I don't know what's compared to to a state in the United States but the risk of a bomb dropping on your ad in the middle of nowhere is free is still pretty small. So yeah, and the front lines were far away you know, and after a few months, you grant Ukraine kind of stopped, the Russians and actually started to chase them out. So then it be a fit then it mentally it became easier as well. Yeah, and I mean, we of course for the for the season for the '22 season, you're ready to start preparing and '21 so we might be had most of the seeds most of the fertilizers and most of the crop protection. We started buying a lot of diesel in the beginning you know to have it in stock because there was a shortage, because as a lot of diesel came from Russia and Belarus and and obviously they didn't deliver that anymore. Yeah, so farming wise we were prepared and we just had to execute it and you know, we had a machine so there was not surprisingly, there was not so too much of a problem actually went more or less most, but of course export. That was a disaster, we still in the beginning of the war, we're still at 5000 tons of corn left. Normally that would have would have been if it would take us a week to sell it and get rid of it. And now it took us about four months, you know, to drive it out by mainly by truck to Romania. So that was a complete headache.

Paul: So I would imagine it's hard to be profitable?

Kees: Yeah, with the with the, with the grain and oil seats, it's not very profitable. Because prices because of increased logistics costs. Yeah, now, lower prices, because there's all kinds of bottlenecks. I mean, our colleagues in Germany, they get like $350 per ton for wheat. Here in your farm yard here in Ukraine, we got get like $170 $180 per ton. You know, normally the difference would be like 20-30 $40, but not $150. So are more. So yeah, but But first, a black fertilizer prices went through the roof, fuel prices through the roof. Machines are expensive.

Paul Yeager: Your follow up is an easy one about inputs. We'll get to that. But right in the middle of your last answer, a rolling blackout came. How often does that happen?

Kees Huizinga: Oh, at least three times a day. So there's actually a scheme, because you know, they're the Russian terrorists, that's the only way I can name them. They bombed all civilian infrastructure, electricity stations, through distribution. I don't know how many things are called transmitter stations, whatever. You know, so there's a lack of energy, lack of electricity. And so they switch it off every now and then so. So they so they're divided all over the country. And actually, it's more or less at 10 o'clock in the morning, they switch it off till 12 Then from four in the afternoon till six in the afternoon, and then from ten and in the evening till 12 o'clock at night. And then, and then sometimes in between as well.

Paul Yeager: And the reason is just to, what?

Kees Huizinga: Yeah, because the Russians bombed all this electricity stations and transmitter stations, or civilian infrastructure. So there's not enough capacity in the country anymore, to provide the whole country with electricity. So you have to divide it among the people.

Paul Yeager: So you're saying the blackouts are more because your current system is overwhelmed. And so then are these planned blackouts or I might not be quite following you here, Kees.

Kees Huizinga: No, thney are not planned because they did the Russians destroyed the system. The system was this decision was good enough for the whole country. But because the Russians destroyed like up to 40% I think there's no then the system is not good enough anymore, of course. And that's so and then and then for at least everybody to have some electricity they they switched off in a planned way. So you know, you can so if you have to cook for example, or no you have to make sure you do it before four o'clock or after six o'clock for example, or you have to people in the villages they have to make I have to feed feed their animals which they have at home, you know, they they boil potatoes and all kinds of stuff, you know, so they have to make sure to do it in the right time.

Paul Yeager: Are there efforts to repair infrastructure or is it kind of seem futile until this is over?

Kees Huizinga: No, they are repairing and constantly, you know, it's easier. It's easier and faster to throw a bomb on it than to repair it.

Paul Yeager: Okay, let's go back to inputs. How high are those in comparison to '21?

Kees Huizinga: Oh, I think they are four times higher. fertilizer prices, fuel prices two times higher. They were, they, they were four times higher, but they came down a bit. Crop Protection hasn't really increased a lot. But it's not not everything's available. And machine prices have also gone through the roof. But that's I think that that more or less, that's more to do with COVID, than with the with the war here. Because most of the machines came. I mean, if it came from America, they came by boat to Germany and from there by truck to your brain. So that logistic chain hasn't changed. So, but yeah, but in his spare, spare parts availability, you know, companies, dealers, tractor dealers, machine dealers, they're afraid to produce stocks because of the war, so. So spare part, if something breaks down, you have to wait a long time before to spare parts in there.

Paul Yeager: Your source of fertilizer and fuel? I'm guessing it used to be Russia. Where is it now?

Kees Huizinga: Yeah. Yeah, a lot came from Russia. Now the Ukraine has they bought, I think all fuel trucks all over Europe. And they started to train trucking. Diesel fuel into the country from the Baltic States, from Poland, from Romania, from Bulgaria, even from Greece. So the fuel is not there now. Yeah, and fertilizer that's going to be a big, big issue. Phosphate and potassium mainly came from Russia and Bella Russia. I don't think we're going to buy it there now. In nitrogen was a lot produced here in Ukraine. But I mean, this gas and gas came from Russia as well. So that's also going to be an issue. So I guess, night as nitrogen went through the roof, and nitrogen prices, I mean, in some factories in Germany and the Netherlands, they stopped producing nitrogen. What I think we will get nitrogen from the Middle East and from Northern Africa. Yeah, and, and phosphorus and potassium. I'm not sure yet yet. So we, we, we bought. We bought all kinds of leftovers throughout the summer. And we are buying a lot of chicken manure. And we have our own dairy farm. So we have the manure from the dairy. So I want to long term long term strategy, I want to use more manure, and less fertilizer.

Paul Yeager: So yeah, tell me about your operation. We I kind of we got going on the heavy stuff. And we didn't even get a chance to tell everybody what it is you what it is you grow and produce.

Kees Huizinga: 15,000 hectares that's like 40,000 acres. We grow winter wheat, winter barley, winter, canola, sugar beet, sunflower, corn, and soybeans. And we have also 300 hectares of vegetables, onions and carrots, is drip irrigation. And we have storages for this 10,000 Tons of storage for onions and like 5000 for carrots. And we have 2000 herd dairy farm plus youngstock. So and I mean that that's also our advantage. Because of the vegetables, which we sell locally, and the prices are extremely high, and because of the dairy was also so locally, we still have a stable income and a good income. If you would have only had grain, I mean, then it would be a lot more complicated.

Paul Yeager: Prior to February Did you sell as much local?

Kees Huizinga: Milk and vegetables were also locally? And so yeah, that's continuing. But I mean, the vegetables are so expensive because the south part of Ukraine for sure. That's where most most of the vegetables were grown. And yet it's occupied. So there is no vegetables coming from there anymore. So the vegetable production in Ukraine drops dramatically. And therefore the prices are extremely high. So we are we are kind of profiting from it.

Paul Yeager: I heard you speak at the World Food Prize, global symposium you also involve you are also involved with the Global Farm Network. Why did you feel it was important to to do to accept the invitation to speak at the Borlaug Dialogue?

Kees Huizinga: Oh, well, that's an honor of course, kind of you know. And I mean, I've been a member of Global Farm Network since and I think it's '13 or '14, I can't remember exactly. Or maybe even 2012. And so then back then we visit the Borlaug Dialogue and it was really interesting, of course to, to see and listen to it. Yeah, if, you know, it was kind of unexpected for me, I was just doing my job. And you know, and I wanted to, I wanted the war to be over. So I started to inform everybody. And I mean, all the lot of media people, a lot of politicians in the Global Farmer Network, we are in a group of farmers worldwide is always more than a thing. There's close to 200 members already, you know, so and yet we're with them in the WhatsApp group that was sending them text messages, as well as pictures and giving them updates of the war here in Ukraine, and what it meant for farming and for world's food supply. Because, you know, Ukraine is like them more than 10% of the of the world food supply comes from Ukraine, you know, if you take, if you take that out of the equation, then it's a huge catastrophe of disaster for for world food supply. And that's what we see now is a price increase. So when I, so I started posting all this stuff, and you know, and then, towards the end of the summer, the Global Farmer Network said, Well, you're, you get the Kleckner award for for your exposure in the media. So it was kind of surprised in in with this game, also the invitation for World Food Prize. Yeah, you can, you can't decline it, of course.

Paul Yeager: Do you feel that your outspokenness might get you into trouble?

Kees Huizinga: I'm not sure if I'm so outspoken. Just totally. No, I don't know.

Paul Yeager: Some would consider that to be outspoken.

Kees Huizinga: Well, I just consider it transparency so yeah, you know, I mean, I mean, that's the least I can do. You know, there's a lot of guys standing together in the front lines in hiding from bullets. So, you know, and fighting for our freedom. And I mean, not only the freedom of, of me and the people here in Ukraine, but I guess also for the freedom of various people in Western Europe, but also people of the free world, you know, and against terrorists now against terroristic states against dictators. So you know, if we let them win, or if the West in the western world or the civilized world or whatever you want to call it, lets them let them win, then it's over with normal people, I would say no, then, then we will, the world will keep on being manipulated by those kinds of guys. I don't think that's something we should want.

Paul Yeager: While I was just going to have you summarize to the United States audience what they should, why they should be caring about what it is that you're doing, but you just did that incredibly well. Kees, I appreciate your time, so much good luck to you. I understand I need to let you get back to the dryer and you hopefully.

Kees Huizinga: No, I'm gonna, I'm gonna I'm gonna sleep now. Go to bed. I've spent the whole night all day in the dryer. So it's more or less adjusted now. Because we also because the war, we used to dry on gas, natural gas, and we reconstructed the dryer to woodchips. So we have a lot of tree lines in between our fields, and we clean them and we chopped them into little wood chips. And now we're burning the wood chips and drying it. So when we have a heat exchanger, we made a heat exchanger over the summer. But of course we have to learn how to work with it. And what's kind of my design, so I have to explain the guys how to work with us now. Last night, they messed up. And so the whole day, we had to clean it and getting straight again and now it's half past ten in the night. So a few hours ago we got it working, I had to adjust it again of course. So what now works, and tomorrow morning, I'll see if it still works.

Paul Yeager: I appreciate you so much slipping us into your schedule and good luck to you and I certainly hope to talk to you when this soon when hopefully this is all over.

Kees Huizinga: Thank you.

Paul Yeager: So my sincere thanks to Kees for his time, good luck to him. If you have feedback for me, MarkettoMarket@IowaPBS.org is the best email to use. New episodes of this podcast come out each and every Tuesday. We'll see you next time right here from Market to Market.